How to deal with a sophisticated troll?

[MAS]

I'm not complaining about a specific thread where people got into an argument.
I'm not complaining about someone who made a rude comment, or just had a bad hair day.
I'm not complaining about someone who made several rude comment, and got out of bed to early.
I'm not complaining about someone who makes rude comments quite often, and has an "untactical personality" in general.

But someone who, in some way, somehow, manage to get me, and several others in the Civ3 general and strategy discussion forums, frustrated in many threads.
Sometimes with direct attacks,
sometimes by underhanded attacks on the person,
And sometimes with posts that don't appear to be wrong if taken out of context, or at first glance, but seem to be, somehow, suspiciously well aimed to get you all fired up.
And then, to finish it off, he (falsely) accuses others that they treat him that way! Especially those that react, but sometimes even those that try to remain civil.

But not all posts are like this, many post are also legitimate contributions to the forum, or legitimate questions.

So whats up here? Someone who can't behave in a discussion? Or a troll who is sophisticated enough to try and extend his life on this forum as long as possible?

I don't want to falsely accuse anyone, but it is starting to get really annoying.

And no, I'd rather not use the ignore list.




I don't want to call names in public, and I suggest others don't either.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by MAS

I'm not complaining about a specific thread where people got into an argument.
I'm not complaining about someone who made a rude comment, or just had a bad hair day.
I'm not complaining about someone who made several rude comment, and got out of bed to early.
I'm not complaining about someone who makes rude comments quite often, and has an "untactical personality" in general.

But someone who, in some way, somehow, manage to get me, and several others in the Civ3 general and strategy discussion forums, frustrated in many threads.
Sometimes with direct attacks,
sometimes by underhanded attacks on the person,
And sometimes with posts that don't appear to be wrong if taken out of context, or at first glance, but seem to be, somehow, suspiciously well aimed to get you all fired up.
And then, to finish it off, he (falsely) accuses others that they treat him that way! Especially those that react, but sometimes even those that try to remain civil.

But not all posts are like this, many post are also legitimate contributions to the forum, or legitimate questions.

So whats up here? Someone who can't behave in a discussion? Or a troll who is sophisticated enough to try and extend his life on this forum as long as possible?

I don't want to falsely accuse anyone, but it is starting to get really annoying.

And no, I'd rather not use the ignore list.




I don't want to call names in public, and I suggest others don't either.

Report it, ask mods to delete posts that troll, and to investigate pms that are trollish. If none of that works then just put them on ignore until they stop doing it. If that doesn't work then they should in theory be banned sooner or later, however with some people who are incorrigble spam/trolls who shall remain nameless that's too much to ask.

Also asking them to grow up is too much too ask, especially the ones who are past 30.

[Padma]

We hit the blatant trolls and flamers as soon as we spot them. But we *do* have some very sophisticated trolls here. We tend to watch them for a while, to see if they'll step over the line enough for a serious smack, or otherwise wait to develop a preponderance of evidence.

Report them, but be clear in the report -- don't just say "trolling". We often do a quick "out of context" check on reported posts, and we might not catch the full impact of the post that way. All reports are logged in Staff, BTW, so we do tend to see trends, like "Poster X is getting reported a lot for trolling. Maybe we should take a closer look." Of course we also notice "Poster Y is reporting a lot of Poster X's posts. Is something going on between those two?"

You can also PM me (with a CC to Chieftess) for more detailed/private discussion, as I seem to be the primary mod watching Civ3, these days....

[Swedishguy]

What's a sophisticated troll, anyway? Someone who says "No offense, but your mother smells kinda funny"? I don't understand the definition given in the OP.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by Swedishguy

What's a sophisticated troll, anyway? Someone who says "No offense, but your mother smells kinda funny"? I don't understand the definition given in the OP.

I could tell you but then that would be giving out names. Suffice to say you should be able to tell from context who I mean and who they are and the usual suspects. That is sophisticated trolling, they've been here so long that they can recruit others to gang bang for them and will. It doesn't even have to be deliberate, but you can be sure when the trolling has stopped they end up looking all clean and rosy, and the person they are trolling ends up under a pile of horse . .. .. .. . 8 miles by 8 miles generally.

I've always been of the opinion that some people on this forum are a cancer that it could do without, but luckily very, very few people fit into that category. Suffice to say if you have belonged to enough forums and posted enough times in any forum, you will have learnt how to be a mindless idiot and not get caught. In fact it will be effortless and second nature, and more often than not some of the mods will be very friendly with the trolls, which makes it even worse to do anything about it.

I've seen it so many times now I could write a book on it. For me it's all just a game to play with them, but for others it is genuinely frustrating and genuinely should receive zero tolerance.

[Abaddon]

Sophisticated trolling is fun, but only if you do it a little, and in retaliation.. prepeated trolling as in the OP, I hope gets cut.

BUT, I know of several posters I would consider to troll myself, or certain threads.. and nothing is done to them, because individual posts are so hard to judge as worthy as an infraction ~ is it really required to report all the posts and so mods can view it over time?

[Mise]

Just ignore them. I don't mean put them on your ignore list; I mean that, if someone's annoying you, just stop replying to their posts.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by Mise

Just ignore them. I don't mean put them on your ignore list; I mean that, if someone's annoying you, just stop replying to their posts.

I have to agree, but would add a where's the fun in that.

[MobBoss]

If you choose to not use the ignore option (and I applaud you for not using it - using ignore is a character weakness imho) then you essentially have three options.

Option 1: Simply learn some restraint and dont play their game under their terms. Dont get drawn into a game that you will lose and probably be manipulated into making your own error which will in turn probably be punished as it contains much emotion, but lacks sophistication, and is thus easily recognized as a violation.

Option 2: Learn to play the game better than they do. Become more sophisticated in your post style and develop the ability to turn their semi-trollish arguement back on them to make them look foolish and in turn illicite their own emotional response and communsurate warning/ban.

Option 3: Enact lurker mode. You essentially do nothing but observe and remove yourself from being a target...unfortunately you also remove yourself from the discussion as well.

[Mise]

If the discussion's taken an undesirable road into semi-trolling and semi-personal attacks, then I don't see the point in attempting to continue the discussion. In other words, I don't see the drawback to Option 3, given the premise of semi-trolling. If you can't help but reply, you really need to learn to control your urges.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by Mise

If the discussion's taken an undesirable road into semi-trolling and semi-personal attacks, then I don't see the point in attempting to continue the discussion. In other words, I don't see the drawback to Option 3, given the premise of semi-trolling. If you can't help but reply, you really need to learn to control your urges.

If you ask me his ideas make it sound like the person being trolled is to blame, which is kind of defeating the point. Why should the trollee be punished more than the troll?

Report it, report it and keep reporting it until someone does something about it, if they don't then start playing a game, it should never get to the point where you have to use ignore, but quite clearly it does, and when it does ignore is no different from physically ignoring someone as Mise advocates. And that is not a character weakness at all. What bs.

[MobBoss]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

If you ask me his ideas make it sound like the person being trolled is to blame, which is kind of defeating the point. Why should the trollee be punished more than the troll?

Because trollee's are not exempt from their own violations of the TOS and each infraction is just on its own merit.

Its called personal responsibility.

And that is not a character weakness at all. What bs.

In my opinion it is. Its the same as saying "I simply cant control my own emotional reaction to your comments so I need a mechanism to prevent me from seeing them at all'. Its a crutch that people dont really need if they dont allow peoples words to affect them.

Again, simply my opinion. But just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it bs.

[Perfection]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

If you ask me his ideas make it sound like the person being trolled is to blame, which is kind of defeating the point. Why should the trollee be punished more than the troll?

Sophistication should be rewarded.

[MobBoss]

Originally Posted by Perfection

Sophistication should be rewarded.

Now lets see how he deals with your tro.....err...comment.

Not that I disagree mind you. I think sophistication carries its own brand of rewards.....

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by MobBoss

Because trollee's are not exempt from their own violations of the TOS and each infraction is just on its own merit.

Its called personal responsibility.



In my opinion it is. Its the same as saying "I simply cant control my own emotional reaction to your comments so I need a mechanism to prevent me from seeing them at all'. Its a crutch that people dont really need if they dont allow peoples words to affect them.

Again, simply my opinion. But just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it bs.

See I still read most of them anyway so this is just bs. Frankly.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by Perfection

Sophistication should be rewarded.

Anything that rewards people like you should be frowned upon.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by MobBoss

Now lets see how he deals with your tro.....err...comment.

Not that I disagree mind you. I think sophistication carries its own brand of rewards.....

I think both of you are pretty much inveterate trolls, but there you go. Thus your nonsensical ideas about how to deal with trolling. But then lets face it you're only here to troll the thread anyway, no? Or am I wide of the mark here?

I think the reason MobBoss thinks its a character flaw is because he has been ignored by just about everyone he has ever spoken to on this forum, by the ignore feature or otherwise, so he would try and see it that way.

It couldn't be you that is flawed could it?

EDIT: oh and btw I use the ignore feature to stop people from pm/emailing me generally not to stop me from seeing what they say.

EDIT2: This thread is like a honey pot to trolls with the exception of Mise, I wonder if the mods have all subscribed just to take down the names of the troll de jour.

[MobBoss]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

See I still read most of them anyway so this is just bs. Frankly.

You still read most of what?

Anything that rewards people like you should be frowned upon.

Now see, this is precisely what I was referring to earlier. Its an unsophisticated reply to a sophisticated remark and in turn egregariously violates the TOS even further by being personal and user specific.

I think both of you are pretty much inveterate trolls, but there you go.

Another prime example.

Thus your nonsensical ideas about how to deal with trolling.

Actually, I thought my ideas were well thought out and explained clearly. What makes them non-sensical?

But then lets face it you're only here to troll the thread anyway, no?

No, actually, I am not. I am merely here to share my opinion, much as you originally started out to do. I have yet to cross the line into being insulting however.

I think the reason MobBoss thinks its a character flaw is because he has been ignored by just about everyone he has ever spoken to on this forum, by the ignore feature or otherwise, so he would try and see it that way.

Thats actually a very false statement, not to mention a rather insulting one. FWIW, I get pms all the time from people thanking me for my point of view on this forum.

EDIT: oh and btw I use the ignore feature to stop people from pm/emailing me generally not to stop me from seeing what they say.

I dont use it at all for my reasons stated earlier.

EDIT2: This thread is like a honey pot to trolls with the exception of Mise, I wonder if the mods have all subscribed just to take down the names of the troll de jour.

And who's name do you think will be at the top of that list? Just curious.

@MAS: I think it should be obvious to you by now whos advice to follow.

[Sidhe]

Sorry Mob Boss but if he lives by the sword, and this thread is just hilarious to me. Basically you come in to troll then have a go at someone who responds to your troll as if you have some sort of white robe on and a halo.



MobBoss I don't think you even realise what a troll you are, how much fuss you cause and how many headcahes you give the mods, which is even funnier, you're a troll without knowing you're a troll.

I agree anyway enough with the personal attacks, but if you will ask personal questions then you will get personal replies. If you will accuse people who use ignore of being sub standard or as you said the other day cowards, then you are trolling. Simple as that. Personal attacks don't become less of a personal attack because you make them. Take the beam out of your eye I reckon.

[Perfection]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

Anything that rewards people like you should be frowned upon.

So in other words, you think I'm sophsisticated!