Sitting Bull!?

[Shekwan]

Have you guys ever seen Sitting Bull do poorly in a game? He's a beast! Really hard to incade cos of protective, and he's a really good builder. Plus he seems to be only AI that has a great grasp of the espionage game too. All the other AIs have some weakness; some are good at expansion and military while they nelect some techs or vice versa. From the games of BTS I've played so far with Sitting Bull in it, he's done amazingly well.

On another note, why are the Native Americans even in this game? Did they even build cities like the Inca, Maya, and Aztecs? I can think of many more spectacular civs than "Native America". I guess they wanted to add something to keep the yanks happy . Also don't you agree that their UB should be a casino?

[FarbroBarbro]

Originally Posted by Shekwan

Also don't you agree that their UB should be a casino?

Hahaha, that's funny!

[Sisiutil]

Sitting Bull always does poorly in my games. He's a poor researcher for some reason I can't fathom; he starts lagging in tech very early on and never recovers, even if he has a lot of land and is able to develop in peace, which he usually is, thanks to Protective. (Unless I'm playing as Rome; Praets fear nothing.)

As for the inclusion, I think it's one-half wanting to add as much variety to the game and one-half wanting to be "inclusive" and politically correct. Realistically, there were several Native American cultures, and no, not all of them were nomadic, and yes, some of them built cities, such as the Ancient Pueblo People (a.k.a. the Anasazi). Remember that in many respects Civ is a "what if" game, allowing Native American culture to not get dominated by white European culture, for example.

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Joke post?

Sitting Bull never does well and never even comes close to winning. Other civs can usually pull off a culture win or space race win if you give them enough time. And even Domination wins are possible on pangaea maps. But Sitting Bull never wins. He's just there to be a huge pain in the ass to the player, constantly begging for techs and gold, and poisoning your cities until you finally bring in your infantry to take out his longbows.

[Morgrad]

I've seen him do FANTASTIC once, but he usually sucks.

He vassalized both Huayana and Mansa on a continent to themselves. By the time I met him he was a tech giant with a massive military, and it just got worse. I did end up winning, but he really, really liked to declare war.

[Synsensa]

Originally Posted by Shekwan

Have you guys ever seen Sitting Bull do poorly in a game? He's a beast! Really hard to incade cos of protective, and he's a really good builder. Plus he seems to be only AI that has a great grasp of the espionage game too. All the other AIs have some weakness; some are good at expansion and military while they nelect some techs or vice versa. From the games of BTS I've played so far with Sitting Bull in it, he's done amazingly well.

On another note, why are the Native Americans even in this game? Did they even build cities like the Inca, Maya, and Aztecs? I can think of many more spectacular civs than "Native America". I guess they wanted to add something to keep the yanks happy . Also don't you agree that their UB should be a casino?

The Sioux and Iroquois were quite close to actual nations, especially the Iroquois. They created unions and such, and amassed very large armies to attack with at times (although they still preferred smaller raids).

[AfterShafter]

Which band was Pontiac a leader of? He pulled off quite the feat of organization in the whole Pontiac Rebellion thing.

[GIDS888]

Pontiac was leader of the Firebirds. They had 5 Liters of V8 Power.

I replaced Sitting Bull with, er, the Inca guy in one of my Favorite maps cos he always was impossible to conquer and was then an almighty PITA. Never did good, just messed my world up.

Love the casino thing, harsh but true!

[LegionSteve]

Like a few people said above, I've never seen him do well past the mid game. He's normally someone's vassal by the industrial era. He starts off REXing like mad, and for a while holds his ground because of protective and dog soldiers. But he always techs very poorly and gets left behind. If I don't take him out, someone who techs decently like Willem will come along and vassalize him.

[MrCynical]

Sitting Bull is one leader I very rarely see do well (probably only second to Tokuwaga). Admittedly he's very hard to wipe out in the early stages, but he tends to stagnate techwise very early. He's often at least two ages behind by the end of the game, and protective longbows aren't that much help when his enemies start throwing nukes at him.

[Supr49er]

Sitting Bull is a tough early civ, but stagnates, and is usually a vassal by the industrial ages. He is a lot of fun to play as though.

Anybody ever seen him build a Wonder?

[Navarre]

He never does.



He doesn't like to trade techs either, which can explain why he always falls backwards very soon. He never does good in my games either, he usually stagnates at medieval age. Usually I steamroll his dog soldiers with grenadiers and cannons when he's nearby, I don't even try to take his CG 3 archers/longbowmen before that.

He's good at poisoning water and refusing to talk, and sucks in every other aspect of the game.

[YurdleTheTurtle]

I've just had a game where the Natives were doing terrible. They started as the lowest score, and NEVER moved up one rank the entire game.

In this game the Natives lacked land, technology, resources...actually they lacked a lot of things. They're were reduced to just hiding in a piece of land next to the sea, while all the other Civ's were vastly superior to them.

Also in this game, they actually built a couple of wonder. These wonders included Chichen Itza and Hagia Sohpia, which would have been obsolete in the hands of other civ's since everyone was so far ahead. They also built them rather late (Industrial Era for me)

Even worse: The Natives demanded stuff from me on several occasions, even when I had the highest score and they were still at the bottom. Kind of funny.

[DMOC]

I remember BurN's immortal game with an overpowered Sitting Bull. Only game I've seen him do well in.

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Yeah, i remember that game.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6518476

But to be fair, at immortal difficulty any AI can become a monster. Burn helped Sitting Bull out a lot by taking out the threats.

[Molybdeus]

Originally Posted by Morgrad

I've seen him do FANTASTIC once, but he usually sucks.

He vassalized both Huayana and Mansa on a continent to themselves. By the time I met him he was a tech giant with a massive military, and it just got worse. I did end up winning, but he really, really liked to declare war.

Every once in a while a really bad leader like Tukogawa or Sitting Bull will get one of those crazy capitol sites with two or three gold or tons of flood plains. I am always afraid of those games.

[Airefuego]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Usually I steamroll his dog soldiers with grenadiers and cannons when he's nearby, I don't even try to take his CG 3 archers/longbowmen before that.

one solution to CG3 longbows is multiple horse units with flanking 2. They are immune to first strikes and withdraw often, so you can do a lot of pseudo-collateral. Combined with usual amounts of siege and some CR maces, SB will fall over no problems