Apostolic Palace - question

[Divaythsarmour]

I'm playing a game, where I built the Apostolic Palace, and I have a substantial majority when it comes to the voting situation. I understand that this is the case because I either have the most cities with that religion or the highest population of people with that religion or both.

What's frustrating is that the only question coming up for a vote is for the position of religious leader. I choose myself and keep winning easily. But that's as far as it goes. That doesn't really do me any good. I would like to be able to choose a topic to vote on, similar to the options that you have when you have a majority of the vote in the United Nations.

I've noticed that a vote for Diplomatic Victory comes up often when the AI controls the majority in the Apostolic Palace. Is there a way of controlling what will be voted on when you're the religious leader?

[madscientist]

You need to have every leader in the game have at least 1 city with the AP religion to get the Diplomatic Victory option.

There needs to be a war against a heathen (no city with a state religion) to get a vote to dogpile.

There needs to be a war before there can be an AP vote for peace.

There needs to be a city that was captured to get teh "retrun city to ..." option.

There needs to be closed borders between AIs of the AP faith to get the "Open borders with all members".

Also teh AP vote seams to pop up at random times, not regularly like the UN.

So start a war with a brother of the faith or a heathen, you'll get vote options then.

[Calouste]

Originally Posted by madscientist

You need to have every leader in the game have at least 1 city with the AP religion to get the Diplomatic Victory option.

There needs to be a war against a heathen (no city with a state religion) to get a vote to dogpile.

There needs to be a war before there can be an AP vote for peace.

There needs to be a city that was captured to get teh "retrun city to ..." option.

There needs to be closed borders between AIs of the AP faith to get the "Open borders with all members".

Also teh AP vote seams to pop up at random times, not regularly like the UN.

So start a war with a brother of the faith or a heathen, you'll get vote options then.

The handing over cities vote also appears for cities that have a majority of "foreigners" due to cultural pressure. And when you win the vote, you even get to keep all the cultural buildings although you don't get the units you get when the city culture flips via a revolt. I think you even get a certain amount of base culture, but I have only managed to pull off that specific trick once, so I can't remember the exact details. I haven't seen a similar vote come up with the UN though, only for captured cities.

I think the only scenario where you never get meanigful issues for the AP if you have enough votes vote yourself Leader (diplomatic victory, as opposed to Resident, which is the civ that picks the issues to vote on), and all other civs also have the religion, no wars are going on and everyone has open borders.

The other option that madscientist doesn't mention is voting to stop trading with a heathen, i.e. no Open Borders.

[carl corey]

Originally Posted by Calouste

I think the only scenario where you never get meanigful issues for the AP if you have enough votes vote yourself Leader (diplomatic victory

Can anyone confirm this? I guess that's why in an older game of mine (not too old) I wasn't getting the diplo victory resolution, even after I went to the trouble of starting a war with the only AI that didn't have the religion and who had no open borders with me, capturing a city, spreading the AP religion to that city, making peace, then gifting the city back to that AI. I was behind in techs, a powerful AI was also going for a cultural victory, and I thought the AP diplomatic victory was my best choice... but it never showed up. Man, the AP documentation is useless.

[TheMeInTeam]

Originally Posted by carl corey

Can anyone confirm this? I guess that's why in an older game of mine (not too old) I wasn't getting the diplo victory resolution, even after I went to the trouble of starting a war with the only AI that didn't have the religion and who had no open borders with me, capturing a city, spreading the AP religion to that city, making peace, then gifting the city back to that AI. I was behind in techs, a powerful AI was also going for a cultural victory, and I thought the AP diplomatic victory was my best choice... but it never showed up. Man, the AP documentation is useless.

I can confirm it. If you have 75% of the AP votes yourself, you can't get that resolution.

This is best solved by spreading more of the religion to someone that will vote for you. It may also be possible get it by switching OUT of the AP religion since that halves your votes. Check the victory screen for how the votes are set up. Usually, your best bet is just spreading the religion a bit more.

[Calouste]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam

I can confirm it. If you have 75% of the AP votes yourself, you can't get that resolution.

This is best solved by spreading more of the religion to someone that will vote for you. It may also be possible get it by switching OUT of the AP religion since that halves your votes. Check the victory screen for how the votes are set up. Usually, your best bet is just spreading the religion a bit more.

Best trick actually is to spin off 2 cities on an island as a colony. The new civ is guaranteed to vote for you. (Yes, this is an exploit.)

I see btw another exploit for Spiritual civs. What if you switch out of the AP religion, and switch back after the vote for victory has come up? The votes are only counted at the end of the AI's turn, and you would double your votes in an instance.

[digitCruncher]

Note: I had the AP, and the enemy had 1 city with the AP religion...

Not only didn't I get the request to make peace between the brothers of the faith, neither did I get the request to return cities that I took from him...

For the peace option, and the city return options to be available, I think that the guy must be running the STATE RELIGION of the AP as their STATE RELIGION. Which means I kept on having NOTHING available in the AP... for 208 years!! (The last 50 years, I was the only person with the state religion, so that sorta doesn't count :P)

I bet the people in the council room would be rather bored in their offices :P Oh dang... I forgot to feed them!! *ducks out*

[TheMeInTeam]

Originally Posted by digitCruncher

Note: I had the AP, and the enemy had 1 city with the AP religion...

Not only didn't I get the request to make peace between the brothers of the faith, neither did I get the request to return cities that I took from him...

For the peace option, and the city return options to be available, I think that the guy must be running the STATE RELIGION of the AP as their STATE RELIGION. Which means I kept on having NOTHING available in the AP... for 208 years!! (The last 50 years, I was the only person with the state religion, so that sorta doesn't count :P)

I bet the people in the council room would be rather bored in their offices :P Oh dang... I forgot to feed them!! *ducks out*

The enemy doesn't have to be running it - but at least 1 other civ does. This is true for many of the resolutions, but oddly not for diplo win via AP - making setting up the AP for war or culture flip a VERY different process from setting it up for a diplo win.

@ calouste:

I am of course aware of that option, but it does depend on what religions you are fielding in those cities. The last thing you want is to spin off a colony and have it adopt the AP religion - it will then vote for itself if you and it are the only ones running it.

Often a player gunning for AP does NOT run the ap religion, but actually runs the religion of a different civ to improve relations - ownership of the AP leaves you eligible regardless and religion bonuses can usually push you to friendly for easy votes. The alternative is to take people in the religion as vassals and then force them out of the religion so they have to vote for you.

Oh man, this is making me want to host my 3rd AP Gauntlet game! IIRC the poll was tied after washington - 7 7 between justinian and shaka .

Do I get to tiebreaker this? We'll see!

[carl corey]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam

I can confirm it. If you have 75% of the AP votes yourself, you can't get that resolution.

Thanks. I'll give the AP another try.

[GooglyBoogly]

I can confirm it. If you have 75% of the AP votes yourself, you can't get that resolution.

Not quite true: If you have 75% of the votes when it is time to choose a resolution then yoiu cannot get that resolution.

One game I was right on the 75% limit with no vassals. (at 73-74%) or so, at the beginning of the turn the vote was cast, with only myself voting for me. Then during the turn I captured 3 of the AIs cities and since the votes are counted at the end of the round (after all of the AI turns) I just hapened to get enough extra pop from those cities to hit that 75% point and won by just voting for myself. It is rare situation, but useful to recognise.