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Old Mar 29, 2009, 05:52 PM   #1801
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Welcome to NESing Circuit!

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TerraNES2:
No Change Required

civilization scattered like so many embers waiting for a breeze

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Old Mar 29, 2009, 05:53 PM   #1802
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He has the template, it's in the spoiler.

Circuit, the latest update is on page 82. It expands the far north considerably, so you might want to take a look to see who your neighbors are.
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 06:13 PM   #1803
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Welcome to NESing Circuit! Like Shadow said, the last update has more of the land in the north revealed. It would be good to check and see if the land you want to start out on isn't already in control of another country.

NK, how is Asandar doing? Has it come close to achieving its former glory? And are Rangi and Anzai really doing anything at all. Any noteworthy trade with natives, or possible cultural differences than mainland Uggor?
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 09:53 PM   #1804
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Originally Posted by Shadowbound View Post
He has the template, it's in the spoiler.

Circuit, the latest update is on page 82. It expands the far north considerably, so you might want to take a look to see who your neighbors are.
Checked it. I was squating!

Here's the new start:
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 10:00 PM   #1805
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Welcome!

Just a note on your nation: It may be to your benefit to come up with more creative names- why is a place called 'Europa City' if there is no Europe in this world?
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 11:25 PM   #1806
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Okay, so my nice deed of the week. Circuit, in all honesty, you should choose a different location; farther north, or preferably in a different direction. I play the orange blob to your south (Evyn), and the current direction it is headed tends to involve large periods of war and religious genocide/forced conversion. Noting your (very) close location, and the difference in faiths, I can guarantee you that simply existing along my borders will be enough to provoke conflict. If the religion is dropped and some changes develop, there is chance a peace might exist; regardless, more likely than not we'd end up at war very soon.
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 11:52 PM   #1807
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Welcome!

Just a note on your nation: It may be to your benefit to come up with more creative names- why is a place called 'Europa City' if there is no Europe in this world?
It sounds nice. This is a story concept I had a while ago, and the name "Europa City" just, well, "stuck". To abandon Europa City would be to abandon Rema. And besides: Palmyra is a real place.

@~Darkening~: Thanks for letting me in on your plans! We will indeed move further north, just short of the coast, the Voninheim colony, and shy of Shu.

EDIT: Map's been updated. No more changing, though. Let's just be friends.
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 11:03 AM   #1808
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I communicated my issues with Palmyra to Slavic Sioux about a year ago.
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 07:26 PM   #1809
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First story: The Tale of Salipo

I want to get a story bonus right away, so I present to all the Tale of Salipo

Enjoy:



The DEP* Encyclopedia: Crispos

...Crispos's telling of the Tale of Salipo reveals some of the major flaws in the ancient federal-democratic system. It was rife with backstabbing, and did not truly allow for the product that ir sought: justice, individual rights, and other values purported by the democrats. The Tale of Salipo clearly demonstrates the tyrrany of the majority over the minority, as the poor Salipo is victimized by. Also, the Tale shows how wiley and scheming some of the early politicians were, and how tight the Democratic Council's control was over Europa City's politics. The values of the people were overlooked, the faith being villianized even though it was accepted as truth, and is as close to truth as was possible at the time. ...

*"DEP" is an acronym for "Dark Eagle Party".


Reman World Encyclopedia: Tale of Salipo
...The Tale of Salipo, as told by the ancient scribe Crispos, demonstrates some of the values of the democracy in Europa City, which held the greatest sway in the ancient Reman society. In the tale, a man by the name of Salipo is accused of casting a vote on the basis of his religious beliefs as opposed to the facts. As a result, the accused is put to a trial for perverting justice. Salipo holds out on his statement: that his decision is based on the evidence he gathered, though the evidence is weak. It is not until the citizen Rosolio forces Salipo to reveal his beliefs that the trial finds Salipo guilty, and forces him to leave Europa City. The Tale of Salipo therefore demonstrated the dedication of the Europa City citizens to the integrity and justice of democracy, and intolerance of closemindedness. It was important that Europa City be as untainted by personal beliefs as possible, and the Tomanish religion was not universally accepted, though Salipo assumed it to be. ...




A crowd was swelling around the central forum of Europa City. As I ascended the steps and past the pillars into the forum, I considered the situation that forced this meeting. Salipo, a great statesman in the Democracy, was on trial. What else does God have in store that would surprise us all? Salipo had held great sway in the vote of the city, with a group of followers that made a good protion of the electorate. He was the last one I had suspected to have been accused of perverting the democratic principles of Europa City.

But at the same time, my surprise was unjustified. The last two referendums put to votes should have passed with miniscule support. But in reality they were hard-fought battles, and barely passed. Salipo and his followers had opposed the resolutions relentlessly. This was alarming to the rest of the citizens; it only seemed common sense that Reman couples in a disfunctional marriage be permitted to divorce. They were not of any benefit to the society at-large, so why should the marriage remain? But regardless of how illogical it was to force people to remain in an undesirable marriage, the Salipo bloc fought the referendum with all of their energy. They equally opposed the referendum that made executing those who worked on Saturday illegal. Most of us did not see the justice of persecuting those who would not follow the Tomanish religion, but regardless, Salipo would not see the passing of the resolution. Because of the similar nature of the referendums in question, the Democratic Council called for a trial of Salipo. It seemed that he may be redefining the Democracy of Europa City, and thus, the Reman nation.

I took my seat on the higher steps of the forum. I myself saw little need to prosecute the accused; I could not really see his crime. Not to mention that there was no way, in my mind, to prove, without dispute, that he was perverting the Democracy. The council, which was closer to the floor, appeared not to really know how either. They spoke amongst themselves with an aura of nervous energy. I knew as well as they what the cost of humiliation would be if they could not convince the city that Salipo was unfit to be a citizen of Europa City. There would be no doubt that the Salipo bloc would harden, even grow, and the Council would be seen as tyranical. The Council would, at best, be not reelected; at worst, thrown out of Europa City themselves. This would be a scene not to miss. No one had ever pressed these charges before. There was a precedent about to be set.

It was actually a very beautiful day. I thought it fitting that today would be the day of trial; the forum had no walls, only pillars, a roof, and a half-circle stadium for the citizens. The forum could not fit the entire city (more like sixty people), so it was quite comfortable. I considered it relaxing to spend a day at the forum.

Salipo stood in the center of the forum. He stood as strait and true as the pillars, and exerted a confident energy. I suspect that he would even enjoy the trial. I knew that he thought there was no way to incriminate him.

Grimili, a member of the Democratic council, stepped forward, and unrolled a papyrus scroll. He read, with a voice for all to hear, "Milio Salipo, son of Davos Salipo, you are hereby charged to the crime of perverting the Democracy of Europa City by making decisions of policy on the basis of theological principals. If found guilty, you will be exiled from Europa City and sent to the Reman countryside. You will lose your status as citizen of Europa City." Lowering the scroll, Grimili said, "You may speak in your defense first, then you will be subject to questioning from you fellow citizens."

After Grimili sat down, Salipo began. "My friends, the accusation of the Democratic Council is based on unfounded evidence. I came to this city when I was young and vibrant..." Salipo entered into his monolog, speaking of his family, his rise, his respect for Europa City, its citizens, the Democracy, and Rema. It was, in all honesty, a good speech, but not one I had not heard before. Salipo was one of the most heard speakers in the city, and while he was very skilled in the art of oratory, I didn't really care for his speeches. In my opinion, they were mostly fluff and lacked substance. The boredom I felt was shared by three on the Democratic Council, as well as some of the citizens in the forum. But Salipo's followers listened with intense interst.

After Salipo had given his speech and had accused the Council of partisan decisions, debate on the floor opened up. Fronimio, certainly an opponent of Salipo, stood up to speak. "There is no question that Salipo is an intelligent man and an excenlent orator. But I have to seriously consider the allegations against him. It appears clear to me that the charges are not beyond this man. I, too, have noticed that his vote on the last two resolutions is in question." Turning to Salipo, "What is your justification for your vote in regards to divorce?"

"I would have to say that I have the right to vote any way as I feel. We are not a monarchy. This is not a puppet government here in Europa City. If you feel that I had no right to oppose the resolution, why not establish a king?" Salipo grew more dramatic, and stepped towards the Democratic Council. "Democracy is based upon the pricipal of rule by majority. But is it based on tyrrany of the majority? I say that the allegations against me are only for the purpose of strengthening the Council, who fear my growing influence. If you allow for the banishment of me, citizens of Europa City, then you might as well elect the council here the unquestioned rulers of Europa City, and the Reman nation! You may say goodbye to democracy! After all, if they dispose of me, who's next?"

A low murmer arose from the stadium. I had to agree with Salipo; that was my greatest anxiety about the banishment of him. Who would be next? I feared the stifling of opposition as much as any democrat in Rema. If that were allowed to happen, the Reman Democracy would be no more.

Fronimio was somewhat fazed, but continued. "But... that does not justify your vote! The only reason to prevent divorce is to uphold the religion of Tomanism. Our democracy is based upon the principle of reason. Can you, Salipo, honestly think up a reason to prevent divorce? One that is not based on theology?"

Salipo stood for a while. I could see in his eyes deep contemplation. I could see that he really didn't know of a reason. Then he looked strait into the eyes of Fronimio, with anger at the challenge. "If we were to allow for divorce," he said in a low growl, "then the divorces would tear families apart. The people would marry whomever they pleased, have their fun, then divorce the next time one more appealing appeared. With such instability, the population would grow beyond sustenance. We all would starve!"

The crowd in the stadium let out sounds of disgust. I did so as well. That was the most pathetic excuse for a vote I ever heard. Fronimio was laughing. "And that justifies your vote? Your reasoning is astonishing!"

"Well, it's a reason!" shouted Salipo. "And this society is based upon reason! If you find it weak, that's your opinion. Simply having a reason is enough to justify me, isn't it?"
Another man stood up before Fronimio could take his seat. "Okay, you have a reason there. It's lousy, but it's a reason. But what about enforcing Sabbath laws? Could we not benefit from the work?"

"Man must rest! If he does not rest, his work deteriorates. We cannot allow for the drop in quality of our work."

"So we kill men to raise quality? What's the quality of dead-men's work?"

"If one man is dead, ten others will keep their work at good quality because of the necessary rest."

Again, the stadium expressed its displeasure. The man who spoke rose his arms in frustration and sat down, but in his place, Rosolio, a member of the Democratic Council, spoke. "Your method of proof is...unorthodox, I must say, Salipo."

The older man beside me, named Fabbani, suddenly became excited. He leaned over to me and said in a whisper. "Crispos, pay close attention now. Rosolio informed me before the trial that he was going to perform a tabun!"

A tabun! I too grew excited at the prospect. Tabuns, or at least successful ones, were very rare. It took a true master to perform this political stunt. I leaned into the action, as if by being closer the secrets of the tabun would float up to me. It was only natural Rosolio be the man to execute one, and Salipo was the perfect victim.

Salipo was heated. "Rosolio, my proof may be unorthodox, but it is proof. I do not see why the qualifications for citizenship should be so tight to prevent unorthodox justification. After all, that is what democracy is built upon."

"You must realize, Salipo, our justification for being so tight on who is a citizen here." Rosolio stood, his trogo's cloth feeling the ground delicately. There was no question that Salipo was taller than Rosolio, and, indeed, a better built man. But Rosolio's confidence was intoxicating. His face was set, emotionless, expressing neither disgust nor pleasure. He said, "This city is the most important in the Reman Democracy. It is by our rule that the nation progresses to its final destiny. Without us, Rema is nothing more than a collection of city-states. But at the same time, we must be objective in our decisions, or the nation will face destruction. Every man in this forum holds the fate of Rema in his hands. And therefore, we cannot allow biggots or fools to be citizens here. You realize this, Salipo?"

Salipo's jaw was tight. "Of course I do. My interest is the advancement of the Democracy."

"And that is why we have allowed you to be here so long, Salipo. We judge a man on his own character. We are not monarchistic, determining a man's status by his blood. You are very fortunate for this, Salipo."

Salipo's face started to redden. "What are you implying, Rosolio?"

Fabbani leaned over to me. "Salipo is the beast, and Rosolio the hunter," he whispered. "Watch as Rosolio kills this trapped animal."

I indeed took great interest in the drama unfolding. I had never seen a successful tabun pulled before, and this was nothing to miss. Indeed, one must learn from a master like Salipo to be able to apply the technique effectively.

"I imply," Rosolio said, "that if your family history were a factor, you may not be here."

Now Salipo was a beat red. "How dare you challenge my family!" Salipo bellowed. "If it weren't for the Salipo clan, the Remans would be a barbarian people, devoid of the truth." Salipo began to circle Rosolio, a tiger contemplating when to kill the prey. "Realize that without the Salipos, Tomanism would be merely a cult. My ancestors trace our line to the prophet Masosio. He lead the Remans through the flaming forest to our homeland. And you say that my ancestor makes me an unfit man! We have given the Reman people belief necessary to carry on life. Without us, life would be a void!"

Salipo stoppd circling, and slowly closed in imposingly on Rosolio. "It was not uncommon for my family to have ibbara at clan meetings. In fact, my brother and uncle are ibbara, and influential ones, too. And you dare say that we are poor stock!" Salipo was now breathing Rosolio's air, nose-to-nose.

But Rosolio was not fazed. That unfeeling face was as solid as stone, even though I myself had been intimidated by Salipo up in the stands. I made a mental note that a successful tabun required the executor to be a man of iron, unbending at all the bolts hurled at him. Indeed, Rosolio was that kind of man. His voice was as solid as before when he spoke. "You have misinterpreted my claim, Salipo. I do not intend to demean your blood. In fact, I believe many in this forum are envious of your family history. Wouldn't you agree?"

Salipo eased back, a triumphant smile spread across his face. "I would, actually."

"After all," Rosolio said, "ibarra are important to the state of the nation. They give structure to the various Reman cities. They are to be highly valued."

"Indeed they are. My uncle and brother are very high-standing citizens in their communities. They lead some of the most faithful congregations in the nation. I must say that Diamo has smiled upon our clan. He has set us upon the path of spreading the truth, the greatest message in the world."

"Why did you not uphold the family tradition, Salipo? You would have made a fine ibbara, would you have not? Don't you believe that the Message must be spread?"

"Of course I believe that the Message must be spread," Salipo said while he beamed naive pride. "I just believed that the place that would be best to apply the message was in Europa City. My family cannot have everyone be an ibbara."

Although no one in the forum said a word, I was well aware of the state of thought. Salipo was falling victim to the tabun. He was saying things he would wish he never said, while being completely ignorant of this fact, and of Rosolio's trickery. Fabbani whispered to me again, "The noose is tight around Salipo's neck, but there is still room to wriggle out. Now Rosolio will tighten it till Salipo is strangled."

Rosolio allowed for a silence to hang, so Salipo's words would be absorbed by the many minds. Then he said, "But why would you be in Europa City if you wanted to uphold the family tradition? Are you not dedicated to your family? How can you say that Diamo has smiled upon the Salipos if you, one of the most capable men in the family, do not spread the word?"

"I am dedicated to the family!" Salipo said, with rising intensity.

But Rosolio relented. "I am not convinced. You take such pride in this family history, and yet you yourself do not seek to advance the image. How can you be dedicated to Tomanism and to being a citizen of Europa City at the same time? The two tasks are not in sync! You must have turned on the Tomanist tradition to be capable here."

"I am a dedicated Tomanist! You can't deny that! No one here can! I would never turn on Tomanism, not even unconsciuosly."

"And if being a citizen of this city would conflict with your Tomanist convictions?"

"I would be a Tomanist to the death!"

A gasp arose in the forum. Salipo returned to the world, realizing with horror what he had just said, and seeing the predatory smile Rosolio wore. Rosolio declared to all, "Let it be known that Salipo is certainly fit to be an ibbara," and as he pireced Salipo's eyes with his look, "but not a citizen of Europa City!"

Among the great murmer that stirred in the forum, Fabbani turned to me again. "And thus, the tabun is finished."




As last notes: Tomanism is the dominant religion and is similar to Judaism. A troga is the most common clothing. An ibbara is the Tomanish equivalent to a rabbi. Hopefully you figured out what a tabun was; there's no easy way to explain that.
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 07:56 PM   #1810
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Sorry, I've been a bit busy. Looks cool, Circuit. I'm not fond of the names, but I'm not going to force you to change them.

Ninja Dude, Asandar hasn't achieved its former glory; trade hasn't exactly rebounded to its former levels, and that was what had made the city rich in the first place. The economic downturn could incidentally be considered to be a major factor in the Duroc rebellion.
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 08:27 PM   #1811
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Great story!
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 08:57 PM   #1812
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Just a bit of curiosity; did Moti adopt the Ka as their currency? And how far spread is the Ka?
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 09:23 PM   #1813
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To: The Vaninheim Colony
From: Europa City Democratic Council, Councilor Rosolio

It has come to our attention that Reman merchants are interested in conducting trade with your people. The citizens of Europa City have approved opening trade routes with your nation. We believe that trade will be profitable to both parties.

This message has been approved by the citizens of Europa City.


To: The Duchy of Beixang (Shu)
From: Europa City Democratic Council, Councilor Rosolio

It has come to our attention... (See above)


To: The Evyni Empire
From: Europa City Democratic Council, Councilor Rosolio

It has come to our attention that Reman merchants wish to conduct trade with your Empire. The citizens or Europa City have approved the trade routes, and believe that a treaty would be most profitable to both nations. We are also aware of your religious convictions. Let it be known that Europa City is unconcerned with religious affairs, and the Reman people are free to worship in any manner they please. Therefore, it is not the concern of Europa City if you were to send missionaries along the trade routes. However, the city governments are free to make any decision regarding missionaries; therefore, missionaries enter Reman lands at their own risk, and Europa City takes no responsibility if the local ibbara and their congregations are not pleased at your arrival. You also may not send missionaries to Europa City, as the city, being the center of Reman government, cannot be corrupted by any religion, be it Tomanism or otherwise. We hope that you will consider our offer carefully.

This message has been approved by the citizens of Europa City.

ICC: In other words, free religion, ~DARKENING~.
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 03:31 AM   #1814
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Just a bit of curiosity; did Moti adopt the Ka as their currency? And how far spread is the Ka?
I (probably?) don't have any one state currency, one of the things I am going to have to work on soon enough. I probably do have some kind of mint in Gaci-city, but there is also Bisrian currency still being minted and there is nothing to keep the other chiefs from using or minting whatever they want. Luckily, we have been pretty backwards as far as socio-economic development is concerned, and the godlikes like weapons and accessories more than they like coins; but I expect the inflation to be getting pretty bad by now anyway, especially as a) we are catching up now and b) I think we have precious metals? Or do we only have tin?
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 04:08 AM   #1815
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I expect the inflation to be getting pretty bad by now anyway, especially as a) we are catching up now and b) I think we have precious metals? Or do we only have tin?
I lost you at this point.
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 04:43 AM   #1816
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Okay, humour me. Which part are you objecting to here?
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 04:57 AM   #1817
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You assumption about inflation, what exactly was that built upon ?
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 05:03 AM   #1818
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On the idea that inflation occurs when there is too much money in circulation? And that there would be more money in circulation if economically uneducated, irresponsible people involved to some extent in international commerce (and possibly possessing immediate access to precious metal?) were to start minting it in large amounts (to buy stuff and to pay off any debts to foreign merchants accumulated during the war, presumably), which they are likely to do as our society and economy continues to evolve?

I don't know, it just occurred to me now, but if it is likely then I'm right and if not, then that's one problem less for me to deal with.
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"Her Majesty has terrible dreams. She sees England as a small country that lives in peace, and no one at the court dares tell her that Rome started out the same way. His Catholic Majesty was once content with ruling half the world; I am afraid we will have to take all of it." - Humphrey Gilbert
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 05:19 AM   #1819
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*shakes head*

Quote:
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On the idea that inflation occurs when there is too much money in circulation
Ceteris Paribus, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Das
And that there would be more money in circulation if economically uneducated, irresponsible people involved to some extent in international commerce (and possibly possessing immediate access to precious metal?)
Quite. Although economically uneducated irresponsible people is not really all that important at this stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Das
were to start minting it in large amounts (to buy stuff and to pay off any debts to foreign merchants accumulated during the war, presumably)
Quite. I also wish to kill EU3 but that's another issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Das
which they are likely to do as our society and economy continues to evolve?
That is the key word. You've just swallowed up a large population, who have already had access to any of the mines you have taken, you can therefore infer that the expansion in the money supply will have negligible impact (although any existing impact might be passed on to you). If you haven't had access to precious metals, then you might see a spike of inflation as prices are fixed in the more expensive coinage (I don't think that's likely to be an issue, you won't be adopting a precious metal coin so soon after encountering them). Your more likely to see a devaluation of precious metals vs. essential items considering all the loot your about to take back. I'm also inclined to believe that any increase in the money supply is likely to be met by an increase in the size of the economy which will mitigate against inflation.
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 05:49 AM   #1820
das
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Quote:
I also wish to kill EU3 but that's another issue.
Seconded, thirded and fourthed (less due to economics which are not my forte and more because goddamn its annoying and obviously there ought to be some ways to deal with it before mid-game or so).

Quote:
That is the key word. You've just swallowed up a large population, who have already had access to any of the mines you have taken, you can therefore infer that the expansion in the money supply will have negligible impact (although any existing impact might be passed on to you). If you haven't had access to precious metals, then you might see a spike of inflation as prices are fixed in the more expensive coinage (I don't think that's likely to be an issue, you won't be adopting a precious metal coin so soon after encountering them). Your more likely to see a devaluation of precious metals vs. essential items considering all the loot your about to take back. I'm also inclined to believe that any increase in the money supply is likely to be met by an increase in the size of the economy which will mitigate against inflation.
Okay, fair enough. I was just throwing ideas out; I have a lot of time to plot my reforms and whatnot. That said, I wonder if the Satar treasury was by any chance located in their capital...
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