Arabian Unit Line Workshop - Page 2

TopGun · Jun 05, 2008, 10:20 PM

I am not sure about that Khapesh-type sword for the Bronze Age. I've always thought the Arabs had straight swords/daggers.

ShiroKobbure · Jun 05, 2008, 10:32 PM

Cimbri · Jun 06, 2008, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandris

Spoiler:

A unit based on the Daylami infantryman (the guy with the red shield) on this picture, could be a neat idea. The Daylami people of north-western Iran were tough mountain warriors who served the ancient Persian Sassanids, the Muslim Umayyads, and later the Abbasids and Fatimids as mercenaries. They had large bright-coloured shields and fought using a mix of skirmishing and close combat. They would form a shield wall and pelt their enemies with javelins (Zhupins) and then charge with their axes. Eventually these warriors created their own dynasty, the Buyid confederation of small states, in the eastern regions of the crumbling Abbasid Empire, and this dynasty lasted until conquered by the Seljuq Turks in the 11th century.

The Daylami mercenaries (not Ghulams, as they were not slaves) served as the main infantry element in many Muslim armies, the main cavalry force being composed of Turcoman Ghulams, heavy cavalry archers.

Cimbri · Jun 06, 2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormrage

Did the arabs use pikes or halberds? I`d like to see one with a pike. Or atleast some sort of Heavy Guard, that can have the Pikeman`s stats..

They did in fact... well, some of them did.

The elite infantry guard of the Abbasids, the Abna, were heavy infantry with long spears (pikes) and broadswords.

Cimbri · Jun 06, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandris

I would like you to help me in completing the Arabian unit line for Civ III.

1. The eras:

Tribal Era (before 3000 BC)
Bronze Age (3000 BC - 1000 BC)
Iron Age (1000 BC - 450 AD)
Dark Ages (450 AD - 1000 AD)
High Medieval Ages (1000 AD - 1400 AD)
Later Medieval Ages (1400 AD - 1500 AD)
...can be continued later

2. Possible unit types (depending on timelines):

Clubman
Archer
Slinger
Javelineer
Spearman
Swordsman
Axeman
Maceman
Pikeman
Halberdier
Horse Spearman
Horse Archer
Horse Swordsman
Horse Javelineer
Crossbowman
Horse Crossbowman
Camel Archer
Camel Spearman
Camel Swordsman
Camel Javelineer
...the list can be expanded

3. All Arabian dynasties (Civs) are welcome.

4. Also, I would like you to pay attention on Arabian units which are already made for Civ III and are not needed to be made again.

I`ve made some preliminary sketches for 3 eras, but I would like you to add your suggestions and requests for Arabian units for the timeline mentioned above.

In regards to the units of the dynasties, I have composed a whole list of unit types likely to have been common in the various Arab-Muslim armies.

660–750

Early Umayyads (Syria, Iraq) Infantry:
Bedouin javilinman, Arab foot archer (in your dark ages line)
Arab citizen spearman (in your dark ages line)
Bedouin-Arab or Syrian-Arab Warband (in your dark ages line)
Arab guard heavy infantry (in your dark ages line)

Early Umayyads (Syria, Iraq) Cavalry:
Bedouin (unarmoured) horseman
Asawira (Persian) horse-archer
Arab Noble Cavalry (also in your dark ages line)

750 – 1258

Abbasids (Iraq) Infantry:
Bedouin/Kurdish javilinman
Ahdath citizen militia spearman
Arab/Kurdish/Syrian foot archer
Abna heavy spearman
Daylami mercenary infantryman
Naffatin grenade/fire thrower

(Naffatin grenades were like Greek fire bombs)

Abbasids (Iraq) Cavalry:
Ghazi horseman (Arab fanatic raider, chain mail, javelin or bow)
Bedouin horseman/ camel rider (you already made a perfectly good camel rider fit for this role)
Khurasani Ghulam (East Iranian, scale-armoured) horse-archer/lancer
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer

909 – 1171

Fatimids (Egypt) Infantry:
Bedouin/Egyptian Arab slinger
Egyptian citizen militia spearman
Sudanese archer (we already have this one)
Caliphs guard heavy spearman (colourful, armoured)
Daylami mercenary infantryman
Naffatin grenade/fire thrower

Fatimids (Egypt) Cavalry:
Berber horseman (mounted javelin, unarmoured or light armoured)
Arab (light armoured, spear) militia cavalry
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer

711 - 1492

Andalusia (Spain) Infantry:
Spanish (unarmoured) peasant slinger
Berber (unarmoured) spearman
Berber foot archer
Daylami mercenary infantryman
Andalusian heavy spearman
Andalusian (chain mail, shielded) Crossbowman
Naffatin grenade/fire thrower(?)

Andalusia (Spain) Cavalry:
Berber horseman (mounted javelin, unarmoured or light armoured)
Iberian “Jinetes” light cavalryman (mounted javelin/sword, chain mail)
Visigoth “knight” convert heavy cavalry lancers (there were apparently quite a few Visigoths who converted to Islam after the invasion)
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer
Andalusian heavy cavalry (mix of European and Oriental style)

1169 - 1252

Army of Saladin (Egypt, Syria)Infantry:
Bedouin/Kurdish Javelinman
Sudanese archer (we already have this one)
Sudanese spearman (this one too)
Kurdish spearman
Daylami mercenary infantryman
Arab (Egyptian or Syrian, armoured) Ghazi or Muttawi'ah (volunteer) infantryman
Naffatin grenade/fire thrower

Army of Saladin (Egypt, Syria) Cavalry:
Berber or Bedouin (unarmoured, javelin) light horseman
Turcoman/Kurdish/Armenian Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer
Khwarezmian (Turco-Iranian refugee from the Mongols, armoured) cavalry-archer
Mamluk heavy cavalry-archer
Mamluk camel archer (you already made this fine unit)

Here we have a couple of non-Arab successor states rising in the wake of the disintegrating Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates.

819–999

Samanids (Persia, Afghanistan) Infantry:
Tajik tribal warrior (unarmoured javelinman/axe)
Turco-Khurasani (unarmoured) or Qangli (Uzbek Turkish, light armoured) foot archer
Khurasani (scale-armoured) heavy spearman
Daylami mercenary infantryman

Samanids (Persia, Afghanistan) Cavalry:
Khurasani-Arab (settled Arabs of Iranian Khorasan mounted bows/javelin, chain mail)
Transoxanian Turk (scale-armoured mounted bow) cavalry-archer
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer
Khwarezmian (From modern Uzbekistan, Turco-Iranian, heavily scale-armoured) cavalry-archer/lancer
Indian War Elephant (from the Indo-Arab tributaries of Sind)

975 – 1187 (1175-1215)

Ghaznavids or Gurids (Afghanistan, India) Infantry:
Tajik tribal warrior (unarmoured javelinman/axe) or Kurdish javelinman (unarmoured, javelin/axe, and yes, they were a long way from home)
Ghaznavid Turkish (light armoured) foot archer
Kurdish or Arab Ghazi infantryman (chain mail, javelin and sword)
Daylami mercenary infantryman
Sindi (Indian, unarmoured) Longbowman
Sindi (Indian, unarmoured, large rectangular shield) Spearman
Hindu (unarmoured) subject/allied Javelinman

Ghaznavids or Gurids (Afghanistan, India) Cavalry:
Pashtun or Kurdish Ghazi (fanatic, mounted javelin, unarmoured most likely) horseman
Indian Ghulam (unarmoured mounted large axe and perhaps javelin)
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer
Khwarezmian (From modern Uzbekistan, Turco-Iranian, heavily scale-armoured) cavalry-archer/lancer
Indian War Elephant

(Perhaps the Pashtuns and Tajiks can wear a pakol, a traditional Afghani wool hat? Though I don’t know how old it is, or if there even exists a model, it could add an interesting flavour.)

1037 – 1194

Seljuq Turks (Iran, Iraq, Syria) Infantry:
Turcoman tribal (unarmoured) javelinman
Turcoman (unarmoured) foot archer
Turcoman or Iranian (light armoured) spearman
Kurdish or Arab Ghazi infantryman (chain mail, javelin and sword)
Daylami mercenary infantryman

Seljuq Turks (Iran, Iraq, Syria) Cavalry:
Turcoman Askar (unarmoured, bows) horse-archer
Turcoman Arsiyah (light armoured, chain mail) cavalry-archer
Turcoman Ghulam heavy cavalry-archer/lancer

Edit: Forgot the Arabs in Northern Africa, Tunesia, Morocco, and Algeria:

Maghreb Arabs, Berbers, Moors, Zirids, Hammadids, Almohads, and Banu Hilal Infantry:
Berber (unarmoured) slinger
Berber (unarmoured) Spearman
West Sudanese (black sub-Saharan African, unarmoured, fully covered) Archer
Maghreb Arab (Saracen Pirate) Swordsman or…
Banu Hilal (chain mail) Swordsman (The Banu Hilal were a confederation of Arab tribes living in the Maghreb, sent by the Fatimids to punish the Zirids and Hammadids for abandoning Shia Islam)

Maghreb Arabs, Berbers, Moors, Zirids, Hammadids, Almohads, and Banu Hilal Cavalry:
Berber or Bedouin (unarmoured, javelin) light horseman
Moorish/ Berber (armoured, lance) camel rider
Qaraghulam (black sub-Saharan African or dark skinned, sword/lancer) medium-heavy cavalry

Corrections/comments are welcome.

Sandris · Jun 07, 2008, 04:50 PM

Cimbri, thank you very much !!!

I feel a little bit exhausted of unitmaking. I have to slow down and to get a rest by a couple of days.

embryodead · Jun 08, 2008, 07:40 AM

That looks awesome. I'd only second Stormrage's comment that the boots don't look good civ-colored, e.g. with a civ-color such as pink or lime green, clothes look ok but not the boots...

Mithadan · Jun 09, 2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandris

I feel a little bit exhausted of unitmaking. I have to slow down and to get a rest by a couple of days.

Make sure you rest up well. We don't want you to burn out!

Mithadan · Jun 19, 2008, 12:38 AM

Here are the pics I've got of various pre-Islamic Semitic peoples -- Bedouin, Aramean, Syrian, Palmyrene, Arabic, Idumean, Judean, Nabatean, Yemeni, Omani, dudes who I guess were around the evening before Mohammed showed up...that kind of thing. Should work for your 'Arab' lineup from the Bronze Age right up until the 'Dark Ages' (speaking from a Western European perspective, of course

).

Spoiler:

That duck-billed axe is too iconic to be neglected. The scimitar dude was behind a Libyan tribesman, sorry.

Spoiler:

That Herodian guy is cool looking!

Spoiler:

These Palmyrenes are pretty smart dressers too (although I guess the Guardsmen might be a little more spanky than the rank and file...)

Spoiler:

("A large fortified city under the influence of the Parthian Empire and capital of the first Arab Kingdom, Hatra withstood invasions by the Romans in A.D. 116 and 198 thanks to its high, thick walls reinforced by towers. The remains of the city, especially the temples where Hellenistic and Roman architecture blend with Eastern decorative features, attest to the greatness of its civilization.")

Spoiler:

Ahwaz "replaced Susa, the ancient capital of Susiana, as the capital of what was then called Xuzestān."
Tanukh were an "ancient group of various southern Arabian tribes and clans that first moved into central Arabia and then, at the beginning of the 2nd or 3rd century AD, moved into the fertile region west of the lower and middle Euphrates River."
Lakhmids were a "pre-Islamic Bedouin tribal dynasty that aided Sasanian Iran in its struggle with the Byzantine Empire and fostered early Arabic poetry."

--paintings by Angus McBride, published in three different books, two of which are Osprey publications.

Antiochus VII · Jul 16, 2008, 09:23 PM

This has been quiet for a while but I haven't seen the unit lines released

SO this is a link to the Broken Crescent Total War mod, which focuses on the Middle East through India - lots of pics on their take on medieval unit lines, it might be of some use or inspiration.

BROKEN CRESCENT: The Units & Faction Previews

Stormrage · Jul 17, 2008, 10:52 AM

That was a usefull bump!

Whats the status on these, Sandris?

Sandris · Jul 17, 2008, 01:50 PM

Some of them were made, I don`t have too much time for the rest, but I`ll continue the work.

BTW, I found several of my elder units for other civs which were not posted yet, so I`ll post them soon.

Steph · Jul 17, 2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandris

BTW, I found several of my elder units for other civs which were not posted yet, so I`ll post them soon.

Who else than Sandris can just found several old units he forgot to post?

Stormrage · Jul 17, 2008, 03:19 PM

Ooo! Ooo! What did you make?

Blue Monkey · Jul 17, 2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandris

BTW, I found several of my elder units for other civs which were not posted yet, so I`ll post them soon.

Steph · Jul 27, 2008, 01:52 PM

So, what are these mysterious lost units?

Sandris · Jul 27, 2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph

So, what are these mysterious lost units?

Well, my hard disk has crashed, so I`m occupying with restoring of all my Civ3 stuff now. I hope not to lose definitely my Poser files, they are the most important for future units.

What about the old units, they refer to Ancient-Medieval period and fill the Firaxis line`s gaps for some civs. If the restoring will be successful, I`ll post those old units in a day or two.

Steph · Jul 27, 2008, 03:40 PM

Oh! I hope you'll get everything back. When my whole computer was completly deleted at the beginning of the year, it was terrible, I wouldn't want anyone else to go through this

Sandris · Sep 20, 2008, 02:43 PM

crazyanswer · Sep 23, 2008, 04:10 AM

Happy to see those pictures become brilliant units~

Always waiting for your future work.

Jun 05, 2008, 10:20 PM	#21
TopGun 258 kills Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Eastern Seaboard Posts: 2,399	I am not sure about that Khapesh-type sword for the Bronze Age. I've always thought the Arabs had straight swords/daggers. __________________ "Aviation especially reveals the relationship between engineering perfection and beauty." Come visit TopGun Aircraft Works!!! Complete list of units

Jun 05, 2008, 10:32 PM	#22
ShiroKobbure Democratic Graphic Artist Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,018	These requests aren't "Arabs" but Middle Eastern, but Egyptians call themselves Arabs now, and the Turks controlled most of the Middle East during the Middle Ages so.... Turks Seljuk Turks (1000-1200ad): http://totalwar.honga.net/images/bc_...cemen_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/images/bc_...r_bow_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/images/bc_...valry_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/images/bc_...antry_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/unit.php?v...issary_archers Ottoman Turks (1200-1600ad): http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2t...guard_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/unit.php?v...E_Hand_Gunners http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1760_face.jpg Egypt: Mamluke Egypt (1200-1500ad) I really want a mounted Mamluke* http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3474/mamelukrq8.jpg http://www.alghouricenter.gov.eg/ima...owa/high/1.jpg http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/33007...5A1E4F32AD3138 http://legionsbylesage.com/images/mameluke1.jpg Common Armor of the Middle East and Silk road during the Middle Ages: http://www.dzkk.tsk.mil.tr/muze/turk...-0278-0280.jpg http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1853_face.jpg http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1323_face.jpg http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/char-rec.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/chr-oct.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/char-hng.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/char-5.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/bands-2.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/hex-brig.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/lam-fgt.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/mle-hrse.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/mle-conv.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/mle-lar.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/brig-prs.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/brig-ind.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/bktrz-2.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/bktrz-rd.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/yshmn-f.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/disk-ind.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/disk-trk.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/zrtslo.gif http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/sohrab2.gif http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2t...guard_info.png http://totalwar.honga.net/images/bc_...guard_info.png Also please make a Cataphract unit: http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/dura.gif Maybe more later __________________ Visit my Leaderhead Library updated 10/09/08 Units Work in Progress Queen Bilqis of Ethiopia Napoleon I of France Sejong of Korea Qin Shi Huang Tons of images for Unit Makers

Jun 07, 2008, 04:50 PM	#26
Sandris Per Aspera ad Astra Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Just Russian Posts: 868	Cimbri, thank you very much !!! I feel a little bit exhausted of unitmaking. I have to slow down and to get a rest by a couple of days. __________________ My Unit Library

Jun 08, 2008, 07:40 AM	#27
embryodead Deity Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,356	That looks awesome. I'd only second Stormrage's comment that the boots don't look good civ-colored, e.g. with a civ-color such as pink or lime green, clothes look ok but not the boots... __________________ Warhammer Fantasy Mod \| Medieval European Mod II

Jun 19, 2008, 12:38 AM	#29
Mithadan Wandering Woodsman Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alberta über alles ;) Posts: 3,794	Here are the pics I've got of various pre-Islamic Semitic peoples -- Bedouin, Aramean, Syrian, Palmyrene, Arabic, Idumean, Judean, Nabatean, Yemeni, Omani, dudes who I guess were around the evening before Mohammed showed up...that kind of thing. Should work for your 'Arab' lineup from the Bronze Age right up until the 'Dark Ages' (speaking from a Western European perspective, of course ). Spoiler: That duck-billed axe is too iconic to be neglected. The scimitar dude was behind a Libyan tribesman, sorry. Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: That Herodian guy is cool looking! Spoiler: These Palmyrenes are pretty smart dressers too (although I guess the Guardsmen might be a little more spanky than the rank and file...) Spoiler: ("A large fortified city under the influence of the Parthian Empire and capital of the first Arab Kingdom, Hatra withstood invasions by the Romans in A.D. 116 and 198 thanks to its high, thick walls reinforced by towers. The remains of the city, especially the temples where Hellenistic and Roman architecture blend with Eastern decorative features, attest to the greatness of its civilization.") Spoiler: Spoiler: Ahwaz "replaced Susa, the ancient capital of Susiana, as the capital of what was then called Xuzestān." Tanukh were an "ancient group of various southern Arabian tribes and clans that first moved into central Arabia and then, at the beginning of the 2nd or 3rd century AD, moved into the fertile region west of the lower and middle Euphrates River." Lakhmids were a "pre-Islamic Bedouin tribal dynasty that aided Sasanian Iran in its struggle with the Byzantine Empire and fostered early Arabic poetry." --paintings by Angus McBride, published in three different books, two of which are Osprey publications. __________________ "Seeking self, I find nothing but myself, but in this I drink the cup of gall I really am." -- William Desmond ----- "I'm not a fan of censoring history." -- gorn Last edited by Mithadan; Jun 19, 2008 at 12:54 AM.

Jul 16, 2008, 09:23 PM	#30
Antiochus VII Basileus Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 658	This has been quiet for a while but I haven't seen the unit lines released SO this is a link to the Broken Crescent Total War mod, which focuses on the Middle East through India - lots of pics on their take on medieval unit lines, it might be of some use or inspiration. BROKEN CRESCENT: The Units & Faction Previews __________________ Jadis of Narnia Xiao Tabuyan of Kara Khitai

Jul 17, 2008, 10:52 AM	#31
Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: behind the scenes Posts: 10,583	That was a usefull bump! Whats the status on these, Sandris?

Jul 17, 2008, 01:50 PM	#32
Sandris Per Aspera ad Astra Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Just Russian Posts: 868	Some of them were made, I don`t have too much time for the rest, but I`ll continue the work. BTW, I found several of my elder units for other civs which were not posted yet, so I`ll post them soon. __________________ My Unit Library

Jul 17, 2008, 03:19 PM	#34
Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: behind the scenes Posts: 10,583	Ooo! Ooo! What did you make?

Jul 27, 2008, 01:52 PM	#36
Steph Multi Many Tasks man Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pont de l'Arn, FRANCE Posts: 15,476	So, what are these mysterious lost units? __________________ Steph's tools: SBB including New automated "Sandris" version, CEC. New expanded editor for civilization III! Download version 0.8.1, support compressed biq (development thread)

Jul 27, 2008, 03:40 PM	#38
Steph Multi Many Tasks man Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pont de l'Arn, FRANCE Posts: 15,476	Oh! I hope you'll get everything back. When my whole computer was completly deleted at the beginning of the year, it was terrible, I wouldn't want anyone else to go through this __________________ Steph's tools: SBB including New automated "Sandris" version, CEC. New expanded editor for civilization III! Download version 0.8.1, support compressed biq (development thread)

Sep 20, 2008, 02:43 PM	#39
Sandris Per Aspera ad Astra Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Just Russian Posts: 868	__________________ My Unit Library

Sep 23, 2008, 04:10 AM	#40
crazyanswer Chieftain Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 63	Happy to see those pictures become brilliant units~ Always waiting for your future work. Last edited by crazyanswer; Sep 23, 2008 at 04:13 AM.

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