No gold in the ancient world?

[blizzrd]

I am constantly surprised that none of the ancient civs (Egypt, Babylon, India, China) have any access to a gold resource within either their historical core areas or infact anywhere remotely nearby. The closest is gold (and silver) in Japan which China can possibly get to control (but not AI China). Silver is similarly non-existent in the ancient world, but I have less of an issue with that compared to the lack of gold.

Given the amount of gold that archeologists have stolen from Egyptian tombs, I think it is particularly ahistorical for Egypt to have no access to a Gold resource anywhere nearby.

One solution I propose would be to add a Gold resource on one of the plains hills to the SE of the Egyptian flood plains. This area is currently rarely settled by either humans or the AI (and why would you given there are so few resource reasons to do so) and would somewhat represent the historical source of Egyptian gold, which was the kingdom of Kush in the upper Nile.

[Rhye]

Balancement side effects? (You all might know better than me...)

[blizzrd]

If balance was an issue (which I'm not sure is a problem for Egypt being a powerhouse) would it be possible to turn the Nubian gold off after the Ancient era was over?

Another option might be to lose the Cotton resource from this area, thereby simply replacing one happiness resource for another in the same part of Africa.

[Tboy]

Gold is marginally more powerful though, since with a forge it'll provide 2 happiness instead of the 1 cotton is stuck with.

[zuraffo]

China has at least 3 not-too-far-off gold options: Japan, Phillipines, and IndoChina subcontinent. I agree Egypt and India both need access to gold though since both of them are quite gold centric in their tradition.

As for balance, India can have its gold on a Jungled, non-river tile, Egypt can have its gold on a deserted, non-river tile.

As it is now, both India and Egypt is a bit underpowered.

[Úmarth]

Archaeologists steal?

[Rod]

There are Gold Mines in India (Bihar/Jamshedpur - nearby Patna) but I believe that India like Egypt have always imported most of their gold. In fact Egypt was almost importing everything and paid for all this exporting Papyrus which was produced only in Egypt (much like silk was produced only in China)

[Rhye]

I could add the gold at the price of one flood plain plot taken away.
How do you think it'll affect the gameplay and the UHV?

[st.lucifer]

Originally Posted by Rhye

I could add the gold at the price of one flood plain plot taken away.
How do you think it'll affect the gameplay and the UHV?

If you put it in Kush (S. Nile region), where most of the gold came from, it'll push Egyptian expansion south rather than north, which sets Ethiopia up better on a flipped city (and after a probable Egyptian collapse.) It also makes recovering from the whip easier, which might make wonder-building easier. On the other hand, given Egyptian worker rates, it'll probably take a while for them to hook it up, and it stretches defense that much further.

[blizzrd]

Originally Posted by Rhye

I could add the gold at the price of one flood plain plot taken away.
How do you think it'll affect the gameplay and the UHV?

Yeah, what St Lucifer said is true. To hook up the Gold is still going to be secondary to hooking up Stone/Marble/Wheat/Copper in terms of priorities. Some cottages are probably a higher priority also. Towards the end of the Egyptian UHV though, getting to the gold would be sought after for happiness control, particularly if a religion hasn't spread to Egypt.

The flow-on effect to Ethiopia would be that if Egypt expanded south more often, Ethiopia would get less barbarian activity and may sometimes flip an Egyptian city more often. Both of these probably serve to make the Ethiopian UHV require less of a lucky start, which is probably a fair way to describe the current Ethiopian situation.

An extra gold won't turn Egypt from an also-ran into a major world power in my opinion. But is will be historically accurate which would be nice.

[Virdrago]

Egypt mined its gold historically in a dried river bed leading to the Red Sea. In game terms, it would be either where the copper is now, or where one of the mountains are in RFC just south of the copper.

[blizzrd]

Originally Posted by Virdrago

Egypt mined its gold historically in a dried river bed leading to the Red Sea. In game terms, it would be either where the copper is now, or where one of the mountains are in RFC just south of the copper.

That is arguably more of a legend than a fact Virdrago. Historians can be much more certain that Egypt sourced its gold from its southern neighbours who were variously Kushites (who were vassalised by Egypt during the New Kingdom but later became independent again) or Nubians (which is a more generic name for peoples from the southern Nile region).

I disagree that if a gold were to be added it should be near the Red Sea. I think an added gold should be placed in the southern Nile region, slightly to the W or NW of the Ethiopian spawn area.

[Cethegus]

If Gold was added near Egypt, it would spark up more rivalry between Egypt and Ethiopia. Also conquering Egypt might be a little more in Arabia's interest if a gold title was added. Too often in my games do I see Arabia range to only Arabian peninsula, which is not only unhistorical but a huge waste as well. Maybe extra gold (->extra science) would make them more of a threat to their neighbors? Even the Egyptians/Byzantineans?

I like this idea. Besides, it would compliment Indians or the Khmers constructing Shwedagon Paya if a gold resource was added anywhere in the South or South-East Asia.

[Theodorick]

Originally Posted by Cethegus

I like this idea. Besides, it would compliment Indians or the Khmers constructing Shwedagon Paya if a gold resource was added anywhere in the South or South-East Asia.

There's already a gold resources in south-east asia, around where Kunming is, right beside that lone rice resource. I wonder why everyone's missing it? I've used it a few times to construct the Shewdagon Paya as Khmer.

[Virdrago]

If you build on the rice (or just S, I can't remember) you will found Mandalay. Gets the gold right off the bat, if you want the Khmer to build Shwedagon (if it hasn't been built yet).