ALC Game #23: America/Lincoln

[Sisiutil]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

Oops, didn't see the last thing. Still, finish off liberalism just for the science boost from Free Religion.

I don't think I'll be changing to FR anytime soon! I need the shared religion diplomatic boost to keep WFYABTA at bay and to keep the other civs on my continent from back-stabbing me. If they start changing to FR, or in the unlikely event they convert to other religions, that could be another story.

[JujuLautre]

Free religion? The thing that would make him lose every friendly relation he has now? I think not.

Also Sisiutil, don't forget you perhaps don't suffer from wfyabta with Shaka, because unless the remaining civ is on the bottom of the scoreboard, you are in the bottom half of the scoreboard with Shaka.

[DanF5771]

Originally Posted by CivCorpse

@ Polobolo. Having one unit with medic1 and one unit with woodsmanIII in a stack gives the bonuses from BOTH. However medicIII does not stack with a second units woodsman. I tried both in WB and the effects of woodsmanIII and medicI on two seperate units DO Stack.

Originally Posted by Polobo

I have no reason to doubt you and I have not actually done any experiments myself. This is, however, the first time I've actually heard that stacking can occur if two separate units have healing capabilities (and the topic has come up in numerous posts). Your results (that Medic III will not stack but Medic I will) seems inconsistent and possibly buggy in nature (though I do not know the designer's intentions in this matter).

To confirm: If you have a Medic I and a separate woodsman III in a stack then units in that stack heal at 25% + Base AND a Woodsman III + Medic III on different units will also only heal 25% + Base. The only difference is the the Medic III stack will also heal units in surrounding tiles at the same 25% + Base rate. If the medic I + woodsman III did not stack on separate units you would only experience 15% + Base for the other stack units. I would see little reason to shoot for a super-medic as you usually don't care about the adjacent tiles bonus (I tend to use it sometimes in friendly territory but for a foreign soil stack you want to keep it together). Getting a Medic I and Woodsman III units is quite simple mid-game and beyond (once you start warring).

Misinformation Alert!
As explained in the war academy article about healing, extra healing does NOT stack for separate units.
The game determines the one unit in the same plus the 8 adjacent tiles of the injured unit which yields the best extra healing.

In the MedicI / WoodsmanIII example this would be the WoodsmanIII unit that gives an extra heal rate of 15%. This stacks of course with the base heal rate of the current territory/city+further extra healing of units with CombatIV+.

GlobalDefines.xml:
ENEMY_HEAL_RATE = 5
NEUTRAL_HEAL_RATE = 10
FRIENDLY_HEAL_RATE = 15
CITY_HEAL_RATE = 20

Polobo: I could not achieve any increase in the healing of injured units after adding a MedicI to a stack that already had a WoodsmanIII during my WB tests. Maybe your assumption for the Base-value was too low so you concluded that 25% resulted from the 2 units?

[Bunk Moreland]

Liberalism just lost it's shine. Besides, FS isn't as great with a SE than a CE, and FR would decapitate your relations. You need an offensive edge.

You should play a defensive war for now. As usual, Monty is a slow techer, especially when he's at war, and if you can get a military tech you can kill him(or vassalize him). I'd recommend gunpowder, and sooner rather than later, MT. All those walls will be hard to crack without it.

[oldsaxon]

I say go for Liberalism... you're nearly done, and it's probably still a good trading chip.

[slobberinbear]

Definitely finish Liberalism ... good trade bait with the others, if nothing else.

Sisiutil, may I ask that next round you show us how you are able to afford so large an army and a growing empire? The economic aspects of the game are the most brutal when going up a difficulty level, and those of us at Monarch/Emperor would appreciate your insights there.

[Validator]

Originally Posted by Sisiutil

Taking out Monty still has a long way to go, but I at last have the means to do it. I'll need to neglect infrastructure for awhile to get the army built, but when I start rolling over Monty I should be able to build up a good head of steam. I think the switch to Caste System was essential. The only way I'm going to stay afloat economically and in techs is to keep running those specialists and keep lightbulbing techs to trade.

I doubt that Monty's going to be able to field a force to cause much problems for you. But the real issue that could cause problems for you is unhappiness. You don't have much spare happiness at the moment, and defying the AP resolution isn't going to help. (Interesting turn to end the round BTW, making us wait until next round to see how the vote turns out. ) WW is going to mount pretty fast now that you're fighting battles on Monty's land.

You don't even have a lot of leeway to use the culture slider since your current breakeven research rate is around 25%. Adding more cities (without any courthouses) isn't going to help your bottom line either. You may end up having to switch some of your scientists to merchants to cover some of the expenses.

Of course you also may need to slip some theater and colosseum builds to get the most out of using the culture slider.

[carl corey]

Yeah, at some point Sisiutil will have to whip courthouses, theaters and colosseums, even if it means making peace with Monty and redeclaring war later. You can't really afford to go on forever like this and expect your economy to hold.

By the way, Sisiutil, there's something you're still doing wrong: don't lightbulb if you're not going to finish the tech right away. Lightbulbing is affected by your population, so if you waited until you got some more cities from Monty you'd have got more from your GS.

About teching: finish Liberalism and trade it around, it will certainly be worth it.

P.S. The "demographics" image is actually the city explorer view.

[kniteowl]

Like otehr Said Finish Liberalism and use it to trade techs, Next Techs on your list should be Nationalism and Constitution for Th Representation civic obviously, if you're lucky you could trade Hatty One of your techs for Gunpowder to finish off Monty... or someone else with Gunpowder.

[DMOC]

Finish Liberalism, DO NOT ADOPT FREE RELIGION!!!

If you can, take peace with Montezuma and tech to rifles so that you have the extreme technological advantage. If not, just keep playing defensively and go on the offensive when possible.

[carl corey]

Originally Posted by DMOC

DO NOT ADOPT FREE RELIGION!!!

Maybe he's looking for a challenge...

[vormuir]

I have nothing to add except that it's nice to see this move along so quickly!

Sisiutl is of course entitled to play at his own pace, but it's much more fun for the rest of us when he's updating regularly.

Thanks, Sis!

cheers,


Waldo

[Artichoker]

You're Charismatic, you're running Vassalage, and you lost the Liberalism race.
This makes Nationalism a bit expensive now, since you don't have the free tech from Liberalism to get it for free. Why not capitalize on your setback and stay in Vassalage? You can abandon Liberalism and come back to it later, when you no longer have more pressing technological needs.

The idea is to run Vassalage + Theocracy and build Stables in several production cities. Your mounted units will then begin with 9 XP in the cities with Stables. With Charismatic, that means they will be level 4 units right away.

Given the current war situation, having level 4 Knights will be a valuable asset in countering Monty's units. They can double as both defensive and offensive units and will stay useful for quite some time.

[Mesousa]

Originally Posted by Sisiutil

It's going to hurt me somewhere, but I defied the resolution. I've got the techs, I'm building the units--I'm committed. Monty is going down. I am not going to let the AP interfere with that.

It's irrelevant now due to Hatty's progress, but my first thought when reading this was that you should have made up your mind if sustaining the war was more important to you than getting Liberalism first, cause that unhappiness in your major cities from defying got to hurt your research.

Might have been a good idea to negotiate peace with him that turn and get some funding for the second round ten turns later.

(Speaking of it, isn't there some bug that can be triggered by making a resolution's subject disappear like this before the result comes in ..?)

In general, I have to say that the fast pace of the rounds makes this far more enjoyable than some of the other recent installments. It's so good to not see the discussions in between rounds degenerate into endless repetition of the same arguments about extremly minor details. Take longer breaks between installments if that makes you play faster when you're playing.

[LetoCiv]

(Please aknowledge my wrong spelling, grammar, ... French dude posting )
Long time lurker, first post whatsoever

I'm really enjoying this thread.
Your war against Monty's going well. If you need to make peace for settlement of your research/economy/infra, i suggest you to ask Monty to change his State Religion (if possible), then dog-pile him in order to not be drag on a long long war.

You should also think how to break your all-happy-unified world. Hatty's won Liberalism race coming from behind on the bee-lined techs. That show us how she could be a threat (Space Race ?).

Correct me if i'm wrong

[Babibo]

Originally Posted by carl corey

Lightbulbing is affected by your population, so if you waited until you got some more cities from Monty you'd have got more from your GS.

Interesting note. Do you know the exact formula ? I'll try to maximize my lightbulbing outputs now.

[carl corey]

I don't remember the exact formula, but there's a fixed part (which is bigger for Great Scientists than for other Great Persons; I don't remember if there's a difference between those other GPs) and a variable part that is coefficient*population. I don't remember if the coefficients are also different based on GP type. I'm not sure when I'll be able to look at the code, but perhaps someone else can give the exact formula.

[Bandobras Took]

You mentioned going for Montezuma earlier. Would you really have been able to execute such a long-distance war with what you had? If the Incans had survived or Egypt had run them over, it seems you would be facing a great deal of cultural pressure around New York, which brings its own set of problems.

[DanF5771]

I'm not sure when I'll be able to look at the code, but perhaps someone else can give the exact formula.

I'm glad to:

int CvUnit::getDiscoverResearch(TechTypes eTech) const

	iResearch = (m_pUnitInfo->getBaseDiscover() + (m_pUnitInfo->getDiscoverMultiplier() * GET_TEAM(getTeam()).getTotalPopulation()));

	iResearch *= GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getUnitDiscoverPercent();
	iResearch /= 100;
	...

so Beakers = Base + Multiplier*Population (& further scaling for game speed) with

Great Prophet, Merchant, Artist, Engineer: Base = 1000; Multiplier = 2;
Great Scientist: Base = 1500; Multiplier =3;

[Mukuu]

Losing liberalism hurts a lot... you definitely should have organized a peace after accepting the resolution. Oh well, C'est la vie (for our French audience).

If you could get Monty to change his religion... wouldn't THAT be perfect! Hey, with Monty, everything is possible!

I am for peace for a moment, and follow artichoker's advice, charismatic knights are amazing. Along with trebs you should be able to march through pretty fast. BUT, what are we going to do about the AP? I just see NO way around it. Going to war with Monty is going to hurt relations, and we DEFINITELY dont want that right now.

@ Babio - I know GS is 1500 + 3(total pop). Others 1000 + 2(total pop)

EDIT: Dang, beat to it by a couple minutes... I HAD to be polite and greet Leto...

@ LetoCiv Welcome to Civ Fanatics! Dont worry about your english, unlike most fourms, there are very few people here who get into arguments based on grammar, logic is what we argue over (usually).

EDIT 2: If anyone has not watched this yet... priceless http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282020