OB06 - Six of the Best - Page 4

Kodii · Jul 17, 2008, 11:34 AM

Nice observance with the EPs, ungy!

I agree that we should take Pottery first, but IW is definitely a priority with our lack of military resources and plethora of jungle tiles.

Ozbenno · Jul 17, 2008, 03:23 PM

I'd prefer Writing before Iron Working, get a library up and going.

Never thought about the EPs like that, nice one.

ungy · Jul 17, 2008, 10:50 PM

OK- here we go:

IT--all is well.

2400 our WB meets a neighbor:

2280 archer built and Amsterdam size 5. I start the settler.

2200 our WB meets another neighbor:

2160 we find copper to the NE!

2120 Stonehenge BIDL
Our archer scouting archer NE gets damaged by a warrior.
I decide not to whip the settler--we need some more scouting anyway.

1960. I think there are some interesting decisions here.
We have a good city site to the NE--we can claim copper, corn, pigs.

However, we have an aggressive option--settle in Toku's face 2E of the northern pigs. Assuming the NE is an isolated peninsula, our culture will block Toku. Then we settle the copper for city 3 and build a few units as we then are more at risk of getting attacked.

I guess the variant comes into play a bit. If we settle 6 cities peacefully and avoid a bad early war, we can easily take Toku out in renaissance. We actually have 5 pretty good sites--the eastern seafood, the sugar-rivers, the corn/pigs to the N, the copper. We can clear out another out of the jungle easy enough. Late game we'll have a powerhouse with our traits, great tradable resources, all that green. So I guess I'd lean to just settling 1E of the copper, build a few workers after the archer.

Having access to copper makes me want to go writing and possibly even alpha-trade for IW.

It's getting really late here so I'll pass it off despite the short set it seems like a good place to stop with a lot of new options.

note: I killed a couple of barb archers to the NW but don't know how to remove the tag. There is a barb warrior which will come for the capital--newly built archer should take care of that.

A look at the world:

ungy · Jul 17, 2008, 11:03 PM

save is here:

Ozbenno · Jul 18, 2008, 01:26 AM

Wow, we got a lot of protective contestants here.

There are easily six decent city cites for us here. I'd favour developing these cities and infrastructure before taking six of Tokogawa in the mid-game, as ungy said. Mansu, Wang and Hammurabi are pretty peacuful folk as well, so Tokogawa seems our only declaration threat if we play carefully with the other three. There should be 2 more out there somewhere as well.

I would be in favour of going for the copper now but the pigs city has merits as well, we should probably grab it as well. Once we get in his face we need to plan for an attack by him though. Would 2W of the copper be in range of the corn? We'd need an obelisk to get hte copper but would seal of the NE from Tokogawa.

If we go copper first, we should research Sailing after Writing so we can connect it via the sea (I'm assuming the spot to found the city is 1E of the copper and that is on the ocean) and start building axes in Amsterdam. Alphabet after this would be good.

Roster
Ozbenno
Mighty Dwaarf
ungy
Kodii/Conroe - One is UP the other on deck
Ralph_Jackson - Will return when we need a navy!

Conroe · Jul 18, 2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ungy

note: I killed a couple of barb archers to the NW but don't know how to remove the tag.

You just click on it after pressing Alt-S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

Kodii/Conroe - One is UP the other on deck

I'll take it next if that is alright with Kodii.

ungy · Jul 18, 2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

I would be in favour of going for the copper now but the pigs city has merits as well, we should probably grab it as well. Once we get in his face we need to plan for an attack by him though. Would 2W of the copper be in range of the corn? We'd need an obelisk to get hte copper but would seal of the NE from Tokogawa.

If we go copper first, we should research Sailing after Writing so we can connect it via the sea (I'm assuming the spot to found the city is 1E of the copper and that is on the ocean) and start building axes in Amsterdam. Alphabet after this would be good.

well remember we are creative--the copper site 1E will block the NE on the border pop, and the in your face pigs/corn site blocks a lot as well.

I agree with sailing--both for the hookup and for the intercontinental trade routes--those are worth a lot.

I'm away for a week so good luck with it!

Kodii · Jul 18, 2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conroe

I'll take it next if that is alright with Kodii.

Thats fine with me!

Sailing looks good and I'd settle a bronze city first.

Mighty Dwaarf · Jul 18, 2008, 12:26 PM

Agree we should bag the copper site with first settler. that should block of any passage Toku has to eastern penninsula and force him into the west, It maybe good idea still to get IW sooner rather than later, we can then clear Jungle and also know if Toku has any himself.

Conroe · Jul 18, 2008, 02:22 PM

It seems the consensus is to settle the copper first. After looking at the save, I think Ungy's site might be better. Tokugawa has already settled 2 cities just north of Ungy's proposed city. At least one of them appears to have had a border pop. Being as we're Creative, we should have a cultural advantage at the site. However, it behooves us to begin pumping culture into those tiles sooner rather than later.

Problem with aggressive settling is we are dead last on the power graph. So we'd need to hook up the copper city ASAP and set our capital to churning out Axemen. Another Settler is showing at 7 turns, with another 6 turns to move and found the city. We could also use more Workers, as we've only the 1 at the moment.

Even if we do go for copper first, I think we should immediately follow it up with another Settler for Ungy's site. Thus I'm thinking of setting research to Sailing->Writing and setting our capital to Settler->Worker then nothing but Archer/Axemen. We should be able to

a Library after Writing.

Ozbenno · Jul 18, 2008, 05:47 PM

I think that is the best, get copper with first settler and then get another settler going straight away (mayybe a worker in between) and grab ungy-city as well.

Would the copper city be better 1W, we lose 4 water squares and a desert hill but gain two wooded plains, a wooded grass and a grass. With the corn and the pigs we can probably cottage it all (or even wait for lumbermills).

Conroe · Jul 18, 2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

Would the copper city be better 1W, we lose 4 water squares and a desert hill but gain two wooded plains, a wooded grass and a grass. With the corn and the pigs we can probably cottage it all (or even wait for lumbermills).

I put in on the plains tile to grab that last hill. But you're right, Oz, about moving it 1W. Three extra forests beats an extra hill and more water. I was thinking of farms and workshops, rather than cottages though, for a post-Guilds powerhouse city. It'd be a good spot for HE down the road ...

Ozbenno · Jul 18, 2008, 06:56 PM

Is the water to the west of the copper sea or fresh? Would need to be fresh to be able to farm.

With HE, remember we only have 6 wonders, if we're planning a peaceful victory, HE is probably not on the cards.

Ozbenno · Jul 18, 2008, 06:58 PM

Once writing is in, we're going to start getting demands from the AI (for open borders etc.), we need to start highlighting every one.

Conroe · Jul 18, 2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

Is the water to the west of the copper sea or fresh? Would need to be fresh to be able to farm.

Good point! I missed that one.

Kodii · Jul 18, 2008, 09:46 PM

I'm afraid that we'll lose ungy's site if we settle copper first, but I think that copper is definitely the priority at the moment, and should be settled 1W of where Conroe placed it. The rest of his plan sounds fantastic.

Mighty Dwaarf · Jul 19, 2008, 02:08 AM

I had the idea that ungys site was somewhere completely different

The current site is much better than the one I thought. Can we not 3 whip the next settler to get it out again in no time?? We will grow back quickly in Amsterdam with all the food.

Conroe · Jul 20, 2008, 12:03 AM

Sorry about the delay in getting the turns played. I fell asleep last night while watching TV.

I began the set by setting research to Sailing and switching Amsterdam to a Settler. The Settler that Ungy built was directed towards the copper. Meanwhile, the queued Settler was

for 2 pop after a forest chop. I built another Archer while the city grew back. The plan was to start a Worker next, but this happened instead ...

A barb uprising of 4 Archers and Amsterdam being defended by a lone Warrior.

At least the city is on a hill ... I hastily trained 2 Archers to defend the city and sent our lone Worker skedaddling away from the city. Fortunately, an Archer defending a city on a hill has a distinct advantage. The barb uprising was put down without any losses.

I eventually got us a 2nd Worker out of Amsterdam. I'm thinking it should be used to chop another Worker and then have them both start laying down cottages in the city. Funds are a bit light to say the least.

Meanwhile, both the copper city and Ungy's city were founded ...

I started them both building Granaries. In hindsight, I think that was a mistake. They should probably both be set to equipping Workers to keep their size small, and thus affordable. We're currently losing money at 30% research. Besides, we could use the Workers at the moment.

As for Tokugawa, he was busy churning out the Settlers. He has managed to block us off from further expansion to the north. We should probably be thinking ourselves, about laying down another city to the west of Ungy's city to prevent Japan from expanding any further south into our territory.

The Work Boat continued to explore. No new contacts and no demands to report. Research of Sailing was completed and we've about a half dozen turns remaining on Writing.

I played until the copper was hooked up (~17 turns). Unfortunately, I cannot upload the save at the moment. Evidently the server is having a problem, as reported in this thread. I'll try again tomorrow after Church. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Ozbenno · Jul 20, 2008, 02:38 AM

Good to see we got both cities down. The economy demands cottages I think. I would switch The Hague to a worker once it grows to 2. I also think another city to the east would be good but certainly don't think we can afford it now.

Is Moai Statues a worthwhile investment of one of our 6 wonders in the capital. I think we should just build 6 national wonders. Oxford, Forbidden Palace for sure. Iron Works and Moai if we're going space and National Epic if we're going cultural. Wall Street might not be worth it unless we come up with a shrine (we're going to want to head to CoL after Alphabet so maybe).

Kodii is up.

Mighty Dwaarf · Jul 20, 2008, 04:14 AM

National Park combined with National Epic can be a good combo just depends on a suitable site. Although with us only getting 6 GP is it worth either of these?? Moai Statues normally would be a defo but with us having dikes maybe we could spare Maoi for something else.

Definites
Oxford
IW
FP

We may also need/want Heroic Epic??

Jul 17, 2008, 11:34 AM	#61
Kodii Ka ICE Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,687	Nice observance with the EPs, ungy! I agree that we should take Pottery first, but IW is definitely a priority with our lack of military resources and plethora of jungle tiles. __________________ Civ4 Webpage: Kodii's Civ4 Chronicles (Last Update: 09-25-06) Currently Playing: RB Pitboss #1 \| CFC BTS MTDG - Team SANCTA \| Apolyton BTSDG - Team Realms Beyond Current SGs: None Recently Completed SGs: OB06 - Six of the Best \| OB04 - Five is the Magic Number \| DMI VII - Celebrity Deathmatch - Team Vanilla

Jul 17, 2008, 03:23 PM	#62
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	I'd prefer Writing before Iron Working, get a library up and going. Never thought about the EPs like that, nice one. __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 17, 2008, 10:50 PM	#63
ungy Deity Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,907	OK- here we go: IT--all is well. 2400 our WB meets a neighbor: 2280 archer built and Amsterdam size 5. I start the settler. 2200 our WB meets another neighbor: 2160 we find copper to the NE! 2120 Stonehenge BIDL Our archer scouting archer NE gets damaged by a warrior. I decide not to whip the settler--we need some more scouting anyway. 1960. I think there are some interesting decisions here. We have a good city site to the NE--we can claim copper, corn, pigs. However, we have an aggressive option--settle in Toku's face 2E of the northern pigs. Assuming the NE is an isolated peninsula, our culture will block Toku. Then we settle the copper for city 3 and build a few units as we then are more at risk of getting attacked. I guess the variant comes into play a bit. If we settle 6 cities peacefully and avoid a bad early war, we can easily take Toku out in renaissance. We actually have 5 pretty good sites--the eastern seafood, the sugar-rivers, the corn/pigs to the N, the copper. We can clear out another out of the jungle easy enough. Late game we'll have a powerhouse with our traits, great tradable resources, all that green. So I guess I'd lean to just settling 1E of the copper, build a few workers after the archer. Having access to copper makes me want to go writing and possibly even alpha-trade for IW. It's getting really late here so I'll pass it off despite the short set it seems like a good place to stop with a lot of new options. note: I killed a couple of barb archers to the NW but don't know how to remove the tag. There is a barb warrior which will come for the capital--newly built archer should take care of that. A look at the world: Last edited by ungy; Jul 17, 2008 at 11:02 PM.

Jul 18, 2008, 01:26 AM	#65
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	Wow, we got a lot of protective contestants here. There are easily six decent city cites for us here. I'd favour developing these cities and infrastructure before taking six of Tokogawa in the mid-game, as ungy said. Mansu, Wang and Hammurabi are pretty peacuful folk as well, so Tokogawa seems our only declaration threat if we play carefully with the other three. There should be 2 more out there somewhere as well. I would be in favour of going for the copper now but the pigs city has merits as well, we should probably grab it as well. Once we get in his face we need to plan for an attack by him though. Would 2W of the copper be in range of the corn? We'd need an obelisk to get hte copper but would seal of the NE from Tokogawa. If we go copper first, we should research Sailing after Writing so we can connect it via the sea (I'm assuming the spot to found the city is 1E of the copper and that is on the ocean) and start building axes in Amsterdam. Alphabet after this would be good. Roster Ozbenno Mighty Dwaarf ungy Kodii/Conroe - One is UP the other on deck Ralph_Jackson - Will return when we need a navy! __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 18, 2008, 05:47 PM	#71
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	I think that is the best, get copper with first settler and then get another settler going straight away (mayybe a worker in between) and grab ungy-city as well. Would the copper city be better 1W, we lose 4 water squares and a desert hill but gain two wooded plains, a wooded grass and a grass. With the corn and the pigs we can probably cottage it all (or even wait for lumbermills). __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 18, 2008, 12:26 PM	#69
Mighty Dwaarf Ginger Beast Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gods Own County, England Posts: 1,060	Agree we should bag the copper site with first settler. that should block of any passage Toku has to eastern penninsula and force him into the west, It maybe good idea still to get IW sooner rather than later, we can then clear Jungle and also know if Toku has any himself.

Jul 18, 2008, 02:22 PM	#70
Conroe √∞ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,587	It seems the consensus is to settle the copper first. After looking at the save, I think Ungy's site might be better. Tokugawa has already settled 2 cities just north of Ungy's proposed city. At least one of them appears to have had a border pop. Being as we're Creative, we should have a cultural advantage at the site. However, it behooves us to begin pumping culture into those tiles sooner rather than later. Problem with aggressive settling is we are dead last on the power graph. So we'd need to hook up the copper city ASAP and set our capital to churning out Axemen. Another Settler is showing at 7 turns, with another 6 turns to move and found the city. We could also use more Workers, as we've only the 1 at the moment. Even if we do go for copper first, I think we should immediately follow it up with another Settler for Ungy's site. Thus I'm thinking of setting research to Sailing->Writing and setting our capital to Settler->Worker then nothing but Archer/Axemen. We should be able to a Library after Writing.

Jul 18, 2008, 06:56 PM	#73
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	Is the water to the west of the copper sea or fresh? Would need to be fresh to be able to farm. With HE, remember we only have 6 wonders, if we're planning a peaceful victory, HE is probably not on the cards. __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 18, 2008, 06:58 PM	#74
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	Once writing is in, we're going to start getting demands from the AI (for open borders etc.), we need to start highlighting every one. __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 18, 2008, 09:46 PM	#76
Kodii Ka ICE Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,687	I'm afraid that we'll lose ungy's site if we settle copper first, but I think that copper is definitely the priority at the moment, and should be settled 1W of where Conroe placed it. The rest of his plan sounds fantastic. __________________ Civ4 Webpage: Kodii's Civ4 Chronicles (Last Update: 09-25-06) Currently Playing: RB Pitboss #1 \| CFC BTS MTDG - Team SANCTA \| Apolyton BTSDG - Team Realms Beyond Current SGs: None Recently Completed SGs: OB06 - Six of the Best \| OB04 - Five is the Magic Number \| DMI VII - Celebrity Deathmatch - Team Vanilla

Jul 19, 2008, 02:08 AM	#77
Mighty Dwaarf Ginger Beast Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gods Own County, England Posts: 1,060	I had the idea that ungys site was somewhere completely different The current site is much better than the one I thought. Can we not 3 whip the next settler to get it out again in no time?? We will grow back quickly in Amsterdam with all the food.

Jul 20, 2008, 12:03 AM	#78
Conroe √∞ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,587	Sorry about the delay in getting the turns played. I fell asleep last night while watching TV. I began the set by setting research to Sailing and switching Amsterdam to a Settler. The Settler that Ungy built was directed towards the copper. Meanwhile, the queued Settler was for 2 pop after a forest chop. I built another Archer while the city grew back. The plan was to start a Worker next, but this happened instead ... A barb uprising of 4 Archers and Amsterdam being defended by a lone Warrior. At least the city is on a hill ... I hastily trained 2 Archers to defend the city and sent our lone Worker skedaddling away from the city. Fortunately, an Archer defending a city on a hill has a distinct advantage. The barb uprising was put down without any losses. I eventually got us a 2nd Worker out of Amsterdam. I'm thinking it should be used to chop another Worker and then have them both start laying down cottages in the city. Funds are a bit light to say the least. Meanwhile, both the copper city and Ungy's city were founded ... I started them both building Granaries. In hindsight, I think that was a mistake. They should probably both be set to equipping Workers to keep their size small, and thus affordable. We're currently losing money at 30% research. Besides, we could use the Workers at the moment. As for Tokugawa, he was busy churning out the Settlers. He has managed to block us off from further expansion to the north. We should probably be thinking ourselves, about laying down another city to the west of Ungy's city to prevent Japan from expanding any further south into our territory. The Work Boat continued to explore. No new contacts and no demands to report. Research of Sailing was completed and we've about a half dozen turns remaining on Writing. I played until the copper was hooked up (~17 turns). Unfortunately, I cannot upload the save at the moment. Evidently the server is having a problem, as reported in this thread. I'll try again tomorrow after Church. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Jul 20, 2008, 02:38 AM	#79
Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 10,569	Good to see we got both cities down. The economy demands cottages I think. I would switch The Hague to a worker once it grows to 2. I also think another city to the east would be good but certainly don't think we can afford it now. Is Moai Statues a worthwhile investment of one of our 6 wonders in the capital. I think we should just build 6 national wonders. Oxford, Forbidden Palace for sure. Iron Works and Moai if we're going space and National Epic if we're going cultural. Wall Street might not be worth it unless we come up with a shrine (we're going to want to head to CoL after Alphabet so maybe). Kodii is up. __________________ Civ III Hall of Fame Civ IV Hall of Fame Civ V Hall of Fame

Jul 20, 2008, 04:14 AM	#80
Mighty Dwaarf Ginger Beast Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gods Own County, England Posts: 1,060	National Park combined with National Epic can be a good combo just depends on a suitable site. Although with us only getting 6 GP is it worth either of these?? Moai Statues normally would be a defo but with us having dikes maybe we could spare Maoi for something else. Definites Oxford IW FP We may also need/want Heroic Epic??

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