Allies March to Warszawa!

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by thelazyone36

What if Russians in WWII were much slower then the allies and had much greater resistince om their way to berlin, and that the Allies reached berlin, and conitnued marching to Warsaw. So Poland would be split between Russia and the Allies via Warsaw, and the same situation for Germany would've happened to Poland instead. When Communism fell in Europe due to the fall of the "warsaw wall" Western Poland would've economically helped Eastern Poland in the 90's like Western Germany did for Eastern Germany.

Quite an instering storry, don't you think? I wonder what would be the effects of today, Germany being an Economic Superpower from Day 1, Poland being split...

So what do you think? What if, the Allied troops were much quicker, succesfull, and fought less resistence, and marched to Berlin, and continued to Warsaw? While the Russian troops were late, much slower, and faced much much more resistence?

The End result is, Poland, is split in two, 1 communist, 1 allied. Warsaw is barrier between the two, much like Berlin was in real life. Germany was also a unified country from day 1, and not from 1989.

What do you think? I will make a map but not now as i'd like some more opinions on it.

[Pokurcz]

Well first and foremost Poland would not have veen swiped under the carpet of history just because its allies where to embarrased of giving Poland to the Bolsheviks.

One of the main reasons Poles come off as obnoxios in the eyes of a lot of people (those who do not understand).

[Dachs]

Why are you assuming the use of the Oder-Neisse Line in a world where the Soviet Occupation Zone in Germany doesn't exist? (Not to mention several other things.) It wasn't explicitly stated, but putting Warsaw in central Poland as opposed to western Poland is kinda an artifact of the post-1945 era.

I think that Hellas and the Turks would have a much more interesting time.

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by Dachspmg

Why are you assuming the use of the Oder-Neisse Line in a world where the Soviet Occupation Zone in Germany doesn't exist? (Not to mention several other things.) It wasn't explicitly stated, but putting Warsaw in central Poland as opposed to western Poland is kinda an artifact of the post-1945 era.

I think that Hellas and the Turks would have a much more interesting time.

Because instead of it Happening in Germany, it'll happen in Poland?

[silver 2039]

There would be no "Eastern Poland" those territories would have been annexed into the Soviet Union just like OTL, leaving a Polish rump state propped up by the Western allies.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by TheLastOne36

Because instead of it Happening in Germany, it'll happen in Poland?

But without the Soviets to give away Germany beyond the Oder-Neisse, why would it be lost? Churchill was definitely none too happy about any elimination of German territory in such German-populated zones as Stettin, most of West Prussia, and Silesia. And without the Soviets to drive out the Germans, Stalin - or anybody else - can't claim it as a fait accompli.

If Poland is divided in such a scenario, Germany would probably be occupied for a longer time before it was allowed to get back on its feet by the Allies, but would still retain Silesia and parts of West Prussia. Soviet-dominated Poland would be so relatively small that it might as well be annexed and SSR-ified by Moscow. Hell, even Western, democratic Poland will be small. It might be that the Allies won't even bother to say 'kk Poland we want half and Sovs get half' and just yield the entire thing to the Soviet occupation sphere, relying once more on the old Soviet promise of free elections. Which would of course not work.

What about Czechoslovakia? What's your scenario imagining there? Hell, what are even the mechanics of this happening? PoD?

[scy12]

Originally Posted by Dachspmg

Why are you assuming the use of the Oder-Neisse Line in a world where the Soviet Occupation Zone in Germany doesn't exist? (Not to mention several other things.) It wasn't explicitly stated, but putting Warsaw in central Poland as opposed to western Poland is kinda an artifact of the post-1945 era.

I think that Hellas and the Turks would have a much more interesting time.

Why ? Is it because the Turks where afraid of the Soviets at WW2 ?

[TheLastOne36]

umm ok.. maybe my scenerio's have some flaws in them... Let's just say it happened, Poland get's Silesia and Danzig, and Szczecin, and the Soviet Union didn't suck Eastern Poland up as it got back it's belarussian/lithuanian lands(the polish majority ones) and in't actually that small.

Let's start from there, How would history unfold?

[Ansar]

It'd still be Eastern European to me.

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by ansar

It'd still be Eastern European to me.

regarding your avatar... I just noticed... I stopped reading Ctrl-Alt-Del

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Originally Posted by TheLastOne36

The End result is, Poland, is split in two, 1 communist, 1 allied. Warsaw is barrier between the two, much like Berlin was in real life. Germany was also a unified country from day 1, and not from 1989.

Berlin was dozens of miles inside East Germany. It was not on the border.

I think that, if Berlin fell, the war would be over. We wouldn't have to march all the way to Warsaw. The Soviet Union would probably recieve back, as part of the final peace, all territories it held before 22 June, 1941. That includes the Baltic States, half of Poland, and part of northern Rumania.

[TheLastOne36]

^that sounds reasonable.

[rilnator]

I have too much trouble getting my head around the Western allies defeating the Soviets in order to gain western Poland to even think about it being divided up.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by rilnator

I have too much trouble getting my head around the Western allies defeating the Soviets in order to gain western Poland to even think about it being divided up.

Theoretically, it wouldn't involve a clash between the Western Allies and the USSR, because the Anglo-Americano-Free French-etc. armies would just have gotten there much faster.

[alcal]

Allies let intentionally Russians took Poland and Berlin as their war booty. See yalta conference.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by alcal

Allies let intentionally Russians took Poland and Berlin as their war booty. See yalta conference.

Yawn. By the time of Yalta the Russians were already deep enough into Poland so that they could lay claim to Warsaw without the Western Allies having a chance at it, so the PoD would have to be earlier.

[alcal]

Teheran? I don't remember well...

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by alcal

Teheran? I don't remember well...

I was under the impression that that was more about the opening of the second front, and that the only parts that had to do with Poland were about the drawing of the eastern border and that FDR and Churchill indicated that they would be inclined to allow some kind of redrawing there but not the exact boundaries.

[alcal]

In every case Allies let Poland fall in Russia's influence sphere intentionally, as Berlin.

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Yes, well, they DID suffer the most of any Ally that war.