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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:31 PM   #1
Kalyse
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Why Capiulate - He gives me nothing?

I am playing a teamed match, Duel, 9 Civilizations (3 v 3 v 2) - Monarch.

Now, I have NEVER really understood capiulate. Whats the point of it?
I have conquered one of the teams who had a severe scientific advantage where I went all out military with my team.
The only victory conditions is space race, so I figured I would play a dominate game from the beginning, oracle slingshoted for beurocacy then built up rapidly to quash one leader. That took it to 3 v 2 v 2.

Now my team just took all but one of the 'Red team' to force them to capiulate but they won't give me anything. They just say 'We would never trade to our worst enemy'.

Whats the point in having capiulate if they won't give me their techs.

All this means now is they have a defensive advantage. They can build up their army now, then come back at me whenever they want, while I now have to concentrade on science so I don't lose the space race.
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:34 PM   #2
Kalyse
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And...

'We reject your empty threats'

Great.. now what?
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:39 PM   #3
warpus
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How does it give the other team a defensive advantage? One of their team members is now your vassal...
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:42 PM   #4
Polobo
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A capitulated civ cannot attack you unless they manage to break free (nor can you attack them unless THEY manage to break free). You get +1 happy and can demand 1 resource which they cannot refuse. Further resource demands can be refused by penalty of war.

It is quite possible to get a civ to capitulate and still have good relations once the "we are at war" diplomatic penalty is removed. If they still hate you even after the war then you may be better off just killing them outright instead of keeping them as a vassal.

A vassal civ can still win, and if you do end up going for war they will fight on your side. You can also direct their research and you control any shared tiles. You get 50% of their territory for domination purposes (not relevant in your specific game but generally) without the necessity of paying city maintenance directly.
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:43 PM   #5
Kalyse
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The only thing I can actually do is:
Tell them to rresearch techs which are WAYYYYY too advanced for them, so they are stifling there progress.
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:44 PM   #6
Kalyse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpus View Post
How does it give the other team a defensive advantage? One of their team members is now your vassal...
I was under the impression that:
It was either:
50% / 50% / 50% Land/Population/PreviousTotal or they could attach you. I mean't offensive also.
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:45 PM   #7
Polobo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpus View Post
How does it give the other team a defensive advantage? One of their team members is now your vassal...
Haven't played teams but I am guessing either the entire team capitulates or none of them do; you cannot have a "partial capitulation". But, since the OP does not understand the mechanics of capitulation his claim of "defensive advantage" is unfounded - and wrong. In fact, you gain a defensive advantage since you now have territory you do not have to defend to distract your opponents (or to use as a buffer).
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:47 PM   #8
Kalyse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polobo View Post

It is quite possible to get a civ to capitulate and still have good relations once the "we are at war" diplomatic penalty is removed. If they still hate you even after the war then you may be better off just killing them outright instead of keeping them as a vassal.
(Sorry for the triple posting)

How would I do that?
I would have restart before they became my . .. .. .. .. . (whatever the word is vassal?)

I'm not able to use them at all, they won't give me the techs grr! :O


Should I give them some techs or what?


I also don't open my borders to them, so the team mates can't help each other?
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:50 PM   #9
Polobo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyse View Post
I was under the impression that:
It was either:
50% / 50% / 50% Land/Population/PreviousTotal or they could attach you. I mean't offensive also.
That is true; but achieving those conditions is very difficult, especially since they are your vassal and thus cannot take your land or declare war on someone else to take theirs.
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 05:53 PM   #10
Polobo
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You really need to plan on capitulation before the war starts. If you were to post what the current diplomatic modifiers are specific comments could be made. However, if they declare war on you (thus avoiding the "you declared war on us" penalty) and you do not raze any cities or make peace then the permanent negatives will be quite low and religion and techs/trades should be enough to overcome that. A lot depends on the leader as well and how willing they are to trade at cautious
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Old Aug 05, 2008, 09:27 PM   #11
Joshua368
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I can pretty easily get my vassals to back to pleased and tech trading, even if I DoW'd on them... have them convert to your religion (if they aren't already), gift them some technologies (expecially if they're behind, so they can be useful in fighting) and liberate a few subpar cities on the border.

Then if there's a branching off technology that I don't really want, I can have them research it while I go along the main route and pick it up later.
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Old Aug 06, 2008, 02:33 AM   #12
GooglyBoogly
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Whenever you enter into a war with ANYONE your relations with your vassals will also inprove for the "joint miliatary struggle". Vassals also cannot engage in any active spying missions in your territory
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