Summoned Units and War Weariness

[InternalShadow]

Do summoned units, like fireballs, have a effect on war weariness in your cities? It seems like when ever I go heavy mages, w.w. seems a bit harsher than usual.

Thanks

[Kael]

Units with a duration that die don't effect war weariness. Hidden nationality units don't effect war weariness.

[lampuiho]

Originally Posted by Kael

Units with a duration that die don't effect war weariness. Hidden nationality units don't effect war weariness.

so permanent summoned units like the skeletons will have an effect on war weariness?

[InternalShadow]

Thanks Kael, guess I'm just a little paranoid.

[Blackmantle]

Killing units in oponents territory with them and capturing cities with them still does though, I belive. So thats where your war weariness might come from. (and lots of summons means lots of kills.)

HN are very solid units to fight with in a war as well since above is ignored for them. (and in Wartime it has the clear advantage that they are not singled out for defense if other troops of your side are present in the same tile.)

[Ahriman]

I've never understood why I get war weariness for killing my enemies units and capturing their cities.
Also, even permanent summons like skeletons definitely shouldn't add to war weariness.

[Blackmantle]

Well not all people react cheerfully on prolonged mass murderer and all sorts of atrocities associated with war even if commited on someone else... (also even if units are not completely lost the occasional casualty still happens and the war effort hampers non-warrelated economy at least during the war.)

Sure propaganda / oppression (nationalism, dungeons, despotism, and a warlike disposition or especially the rose of persepur...) help with that but still its unsettling enough in the long run to... (exept fanatic angels orc/nordic barbarians and demons. Those don't care much. Or even relish in the last case.)

Or short and simple: War sucks.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

I've never understood why I get war weariness for killing my enemies units and capturing their cities.

Spoken like a true american. Why would we be upset? It's OUR troops doing the murdering and pillaging!

[EmptyWolf]

Originally Posted by Blackmantle

Sure propaganda / oppression (nationalism, dungeons, despotism, and a warlike disposition or especially the rose of persepur...) help with that but still its unsettling enough in the long run to... (exept fanatic angels orc/nordic barbarians and demons. Those don't care much. Or even relish in the last case.

Demons (Infernals) will be upset over war if they go with Liberty.

[Blackmantle]

*in deep resounding bass*

Yea as i said my manes relish war and let their rage go free in our own cities if let loose as they like (cying out for even more blood. ). So you watch out and keep those guys chained and entertained with religion, national pride or consumptionism. :P Those things can be quite furious. Not a simple thing beeing a demon lord and ruler of the infernal hordes in creation.
Hell is not a place for vacation after all.

Btw. up for signing a little infernal pact EmptyWolf? *hands him a sheet of human hide inscribed with a text promising power and other things for the price of his soul*

*deep resounding bass off*

[c.fe]

Originally Posted by EmptyWolf

Demons (Infernals) will be upset over war if they go with Liberty.

Well, I never ran liberty being Hyborem but the "demonic citizens" building should take care of that.

[Ahriman]

Spoken like a true american. Why would we be upset? It's OUR troops doing the murdering and pillaging!

I'm not American..... hell, I'm from New Zealand.
But historically speaking, most people are fine with wars prosecuted overseas as long as their side is winning without many casualties. Victorian Britain never had riots because soldiers were off overseas slaughtering Africans or Indians. Ancient Rome didn't develop civil disorder because the legions conquered Gaul or North Africa. The Spanish were perfectly happy with conquistadors wiping out millions
On earth, you only get significant (war-related) civil disobedience from heavy war taxes, conscription, war-related food shortages, or significant military casualties. Not winning battles or capturing territory.

[EmptyWolf]

Originally Posted by Blackmantle

Btw. up for signing a little infernal pact EmptyWolf? *hands him a sheet of human hide inscribed with a text promising power and other things for the price of his soul*

*deep resounding bass off*

As an oath-taker of the Order, I'll have to politely decline that offer.

Originally Posted by c.fe

Well, I never ran liberty being Hyborem but the "demonic citizens" building should take care of that.

I've never actually ran liberty with Hyborem either, but it could be of questionable usefulness for popping out the starting borders quicker or if you've got 3 mega cities and want a cultural victory. However that +1 free specialist doesn't mean much in a size +70 or +300 city.

About the Original Post:
Summoned Units and War Weariness

If anything I think the Sheaim would be happy their death-spam spectres and wraiths are slaughtering every enemy in sight. At least Sheaim don't get upset when the eater of dreams is at work.

[TheJopa]

Originally Posted by EmptyWolf

I've never actually ran liberty with Hyborem either, but it could be of questionable usefulness for popping out the starting borders quicker or if you've got 3 mega cities and want a cultural victory. However that +1 free specialist doesn't mean much in a size +70 or +300 city.

Demonic citizens eliminate all unhappiness and unhealthiness. So Infernals will never have problems with WW.

[AljayBoy]

Originally Posted by TheJopa

Demonic citizens eliminate all unhappiness and unhealthiness. So Infernals will never have problems with WW.

Doesn't the Infernal's Palace not have a " -100% War Weariness " bonus anyway?

But with the OP, yeah summoned units should not not add to the WW, thats partly the reason of summoning other spirits/elementals: they do the dirty work so the soldiers don't have to. That with they fact the can be more powerful than many of your soldiers anyway.

[mahazel]

Units with a duration that die don't effect war weariness. Hidden nationality units don't effect war weariness.

Sorry, but in my recent game as Sheim when I summoned a fireball and my incomes drop by 1 gold/turn, I lost this fireballs in the same turn, and in next turn my incomes grow up by 1 gold/turn. The same thing was with spectre. So unit with duration do effect war weariness.

[Grey Fox]

Thats not war weariness, that's unit upkeep.

[mahazel]

Thats not war weariness, that's unit upkeep.

aaaa, sorry, I was thinking about unit upkeep (I`m ill and my brain just isn`t working as it should). But I think it isn`t right, that summoned unit cost you additional money (especially fireball - wow, my mage cast fireball, lets check if my gold dissapeared when I throw it into flames...) ech, I schould go back to bed.

[Ahriman]

All units currently cost you upkeep; this is hardcoded and there is currently no way around this (though I understand Xienwolf is working on a fix).

I'm not sure however whether or not you *actually* have to pay for a summoned unit that you lose before the end of the turn (through death or disbanding).
I suspect that you might pay the upkeep if you leave the summon to expire at the start of your next turn, but not if you delete it at the end of your turn.

[xienwolf]

There's three ways you can fix it that I can think of.

1. You can make the unit grant you a free Unit upkeep slot.
   • Honestly not sure I thought of this one before just now, seems a handy approach to the issue, might be hard to do, but shouldn't be
2. You can make the game ignore the unit for your total count.
   • This was my first idea long ago, but it sucks as you can drive your total unit count below 0 this way, and you run the risk of prematurely killing a player in a Requires Complete Kills game
3. Or you can make the unit grant you gold to pay for itself.
   • This is what I have already implemented, you run the risk of having a unit which would normally be free (cause you don't have many yet) give you gold to pay for itself anyway, thus meaning you MAKE gold with the unit. I would like to say I found a way to dodge this, but I can't remember if I did or not. I know I considered it at least