Newb question concerning combat outcomes

[Raijer]

So how 'bout filling a newbie in on the intricacies of combat? Specifically, how does the AI calculate a battle? After finally feeling confident enough to move up from Chieften, my first few games in Warlord have dealt me nothing but one humiliating military defeat after another. What prompted me to start this thread was the seeming ease with which the AI kicked my *@#!! For example: on more than one occaion I witnessed a battle in which one of my elite legionaries, at full strength, would go toe to toe with an Egyptian charriot with nothing more than a couple of yellow bars remaining of life, only to watch my Legion crumple and die! What the...

By the way, can Egyption charriots ride over roadless mountains? I would have thought no, but I saw it happen more than I care to admit. Anyway, thanks in advance for any pointers and/or pertinent info.

[Fistandantilus]

All battles are based on odds. Even if the computer shouldn't bother to calculate it still does. To get realistic odds, you should divide your attacking power by the sum of your attacking power and their defensive power. BUT, IT IS STILL ALL ODDS. You must always remember this because I have seen Modern Armor lose to lone hopilites (24 attack, 3 defense), very sad but very true. Can work in your favor though...

[Raijer]

All right, now we're getting somewhere. I'll (as they say) do the math, and then run my results by you on my next post. If the numbers seem whacky, here's hoping you can spot the error! Thanks Fistandantilus.

[Hurricane]

About the chariots: no they can´t cross mountains/jungles unless they have roads. Maybe they built a road there after you explored the tile. The road will not show up until you have bought a current world map or re-eplored the square.

[Raijer]

Thanks to Hurricane for ruining my perfectly good theory, i.e. the AI cheats like Rainman in Vegas! Seriously, the territory in question was smack-dab in the middle of all-out war. The Egyptians were rolling staight into a small Greek town, complete with barracks, only to reappear two turns later - fresh as a daisy and lusting to spill my Roman blood. The city sat just east of a mountain range. I never saw any road. But since Cleo's thugs were ridiculously numerous, and I was forced to watch my Elite legions buckle under the pressure, the most logical answer must be that I was blinded by rage (although you have to admit, those roads are hard to see in the mountains). I have a saved game, so I'll simply do what I should have done then: right click the square.

Thanks for the help Hurricane.

[Arathorn]

Right-clicking the square won't fully answer your question -- if there's a road there but it was built after you last saw that square, it won't show up.

Also, chariots can go between mountains on hills or flatlands and I've often done and seen that.

One other thing to remember is that random-looking numbers will always have longer runs (both good and bad) than our human minds expect. It's weird but true.

Arathorn

[sir_loin_of_ham]

Combat is a matter of probability but this combat formula, in comparison to that of CivII, allows for computer victories which lean towards outrageous, most unbearably so when the human player commands an obvious numerical advantage. Unit promotion in CivII meant that unit received attack and defense bonuses rather than HP, and most importantly, units could be damaged in much smaller increments. So the greater the number of attacks between any two units meant that the outcome would more accurately manifest the higher rating of either unit. Or, if you had a cube which you rolled 6 times, you may get 3,1,5,6,5,4; if it were to be rolled 100 times, each number would appear in a closer relationship to the 1:6 ratio, and if 1000 times then even more so. Thus streaks of luck (good and bad) in combat will be proportionate to the length of the conflict, or the HP of the units, as much as the attack/defense unfortunately.
Of course other factors influence a victory in both Civ games: occupied terrain (which offers a much smaller advantage than CivII), improvements, promotion and such. CivIII brought other factors - trans-river combat, town-metropolis defense bonuses, fast unit withdrawal, defensive artillery, etc. In addition to the lack of quick and/or high-attack ancient units (elephants, legions, catapults), this makes an offensive war much more difficult before the discovery of chivalry, unless aided by a unique unit like the Immortal. No more riding the enemy's roads and railroads, attacking multiple times in a turn, splitting them with a capital assault; so 3 turn elimination of an empire is almost impossible if both are well matched. The Infantry unit also contributes to national stalemates as a WWI recreation, until, as in 1939, tanks are deployed.
In general the death or survival of a unit is subject to chance more often than in CivII, which reduces the commander's ability to decide the course of a war. While this is realistic in certain cases, it shall never contribute to a more satisfying game, because too much chance is a gag and not a garnish.

Does the level of difficulty affect combat outcomes? I think the AI merely steps up its tactics a bit and unhappiness is increased, but please notify if otherwise.

[Hurricane]

Does the level of difficulty affect combat outcomes? I think the AI merely steps up its tactics a bit and unhappiness is increased, but please notify if otherwise.

No.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by sir_loin_of_ham
While this is realistic in certain cases, it shall never contribute to a more satisfying game, because too much chance is a gag and not a garnish.

Though there is some "chance" involved in battle (in the midst of confusion, fear and death), proper planning can minimize the risk.

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm6/0750ad.htm

SHIVA
The Destroyer

[Hades]

I am not sure if I am seeing things but the "elite" units are actually underperformed the veterans. They usually died in the first attacks.

[sir_loin_of_ham]

Yes its happened very often to me as well. Once a veteran is promoted, he rides back into the fray to meet a flawless defeat. Yet the veterans fare much better...