An odd occurence...

Grandraem · Aug 11, 2008, 04:54 PM

I just added light footmen to my mod, which are the upgrade of warriors. I added a basic light footman first for all civs, before making civ specific ones.

Whenever I test the game on debug mode (haven't tried it outside debug mode), my civ works properly, but every other civ can build 2 of their base warriors. On their build screen for their city it has two warriors that look identical, buildable one beneath the other. Kind of like this:
Settler
Worker
Scout
Warrior
Warrior
Barracks
Granary
Etc.

Any civ that I play has just one, like it should be, but every other civ has two. When I play as one of those civs that had two, they only have one like they should when I play as the civ.

I'm not sure if this is just a little error that appears in debug mode, or if it will go away, but right now in testing my mod this is occuring.

If anyone has any input on this I welcome it.

kulade · Aug 11, 2008, 05:11 PM

Does it affect gameplay? If not it's probably just a glitch in debug and I wouldn't worry about it...

Azmorg · Aug 11, 2008, 06:22 PM

Is it possible that having added the light footman for all civs and then doing civ specific ones means that each civ can build two; the gereric and the specific?

WildWeazel · Aug 11, 2008, 08:22 PM

The AI treats different available strategies as different units. If a unit is given both offense and defense strategies in the editor for example, the AI will get 2 identical units, one for offense and one for defense, and use them accordingly. It's nothing to worry about, just another AI-ism.

Civinator · Aug 11, 2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandraem

Any civ that I play has just one, like it should be, but every other civ has two. When I play as one of those civs that had two, they only have one like they should when I play as the civ...
If anyone has any input on this I welcome it.

I think these additional basic warriors are coming from the additional starting units for the AI in higher difficulty levels. This also explains why the AI is getting these units and not you.

AncientOne · Aug 12, 2008, 04:03 AM

I think Weasel Op is right about that, so this is actually still this one unit and that's why you can build only one.. but AI is so stupid that it needs the unit that has both offence and deffense strategies to be split into two units, so AI can choose which strategy it actually uses. Include bombing, scouting or something else, and you probbably see even more units for AI in debug mode.

Keroro · Aug 12, 2008, 04:31 AM

I've noticed this effect when in debug mode too, I always wondered what caused it. I guess the way to be sure is to remove one of the AI flags from the unit in question and see how many times it comes up on the AI build queue then.

Grandraem · Aug 12, 2008, 08:41 AM

Thanks for all the info. I guess that it's probably nothing to worry about. I'll try removing the defence flag and see what happens though, just for curiosity.

Azmorg,
I mentioned that I just added the Light Footman just in case, but I don't think that it is causing the problem, because the warrior upgrades into the light footman at Bronze Working, and this is happening even before any civ reaches Bronze Working. Also, each civ only has one warrior buildable by them in the editor, it just appears as two identical warriors in their build list in the game.

Grandraem · Aug 12, 2008, 08:50 AM

I tested it, and it appears that Weasel Op is right.

I removed the defence flag from the dwarf warrior and they could build only 1. I also tried playing against a human civ and they could still build two warriors.

Thanks again everyone, for your help.

Stazro · Aug 12, 2008, 12:20 PM

Does this mean the AI is not able to to switch one unit from defensive to offensive use, because it hasn't build it as such?

Keroro · Aug 12, 2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stazro

Does this mean the AI is not able to to switch one unit from defensive to offensive use, because it hasn't build it as such?

I believe not. The AI assigns one strategy, and one strategy only to each unit. This is why it is so frustrating trying to get the AI to use multi-purpose units.

BadKharma · Aug 12, 2008, 05:32 PM

Yes at times it is very frustrating however the AI will use the infantryman in the epic game for both attack and defense which it is flagged for both so I have to wonder.

Stazro · Aug 12, 2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadKharma

Yes at times it is very frustrating however the AI will use the infantryman in the epic game for both attack and defense which it is flagged for both so I have to wonder.

Does it really use one infantryman for both or does it use infantry A for attack and infantry B for defence?

Vuldacon · Aug 13, 2008, 02:52 AM

I agree that the AI chooses only one Unit for Attack and one for Defense when Building them...this provides direct coding to the AI for game play direction.
...That said, a unit that is built as an Attacking Unit does have a Defense, so certainly this so called Attacking Unit will defend IF attacked.

...The AI builds Units and controls their actions by their abilities, Attack, Defense, scouting, worker, etc... and these are separated for them so it is direct.
Because the AI cannot control others Attacking them, the AI will of course use any unit with a defense when needed in a city, even if that unit was built for the purpose of Attacking. In other words, the AI will use any Unit it has to Defend a city when attacked but this is due to the fact that the attacking unit happens to be in the City and has a Defense. when it comes to the AI attacking in the game, that will be with Attacking Units that were built for that purpose. Naturally we will see more Defensive units inside the Cities...all due to this coding that Tells the AI what to build and what to use in order to provide some characteristic of "intelligence" to them. If Not for that type of coding, we would see Workers attacking and Riflemen planting a garden, etc...

Keroro · Aug 13, 2008, 07:21 AM

^ What he said. I think of the times I've had a slave ending up in enemy territory. The AI side has say Mech Inf in their cities, which could come out on railroads, take the slave, get back to it's city and fortify itself again. But it doesn't do that. It will take slaves if it has attack flagged units to use, but not with defence units. You can rest assured that the AI isn't going to make any attacks with defensive units.

The partial relief to this is the AI no patrol change to the .ini file, which seems to make the AI a little more interesting.

Ozymandias · Aug 17, 2008, 10:11 AM

The AI definitely assigns one strategy per unit and keeps it that way. "Defensive" units often show up with attacking troops of the same type because the AI will often support Attackers with Defenders.

-Oz

againsttheflow · Aug 19, 2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroro

The partial relief to this is the AI no patrol change to the .ini file, which seems to make the AI a little more interesting.

I seem to remember not getting this to work. What exactly is the line you're supposed to add?

Keroro · Aug 19, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by againsttheflow

I seem to remember not getting this to work. What exactly is the line you're supposed to add?

In the conquests.ini it's NoAIPatrol= changed to a value of 0, add the line at the end of the file, if it's not already there. It seems to have some effect.

againsttheflow · Aug 20, 2008, 11:23 AM

Ok, thanks.

I could never remember whether it was that or AINoPatrol.

BadKharma · Aug 20, 2008, 02:49 PM

What exactly does that edit acheive?

Aug 11, 2008, 04:54 PM	#1
Grandraem Alchemist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Below. Posts: 2,043	An odd occurence... I just added light footmen to my mod, which are the upgrade of warriors. I added a basic light footman first for all civs, before making civ specific ones. Whenever I test the game on debug mode (haven't tried it outside debug mode), my civ works properly, but every other civ can build 2 of their base warriors. On their build screen for their city it has two warriors that look identical, buildable one beneath the other. Kind of like this: Settler Worker Scout Warrior Warrior Barracks Granary Etc. Any civ that I play has just one, like it should be, but every other civ has two. When I play as one of those civs that had two, they only have one like they should when I play as the civ. I'm not sure if this is just a little error that appears in debug mode, or if it will go away, but right now in testing my mod this is occuring. If anyone has any input on this I welcome it. __________________ D&D Mod: Champions of Mystara - Coming whenever it gets done! ... Working hard on it! My Leaderheads are all available from the Civ III Downloads Database. Alternate Leaderhead PCXs for Brennus, Ragnar, Hannibal, and Gilgamesh: Here Stormrage, your orcish awesomeness is missed!

Aug 11, 2008, 06:22 PM	#3
Azmorg Bretwalda Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Camelot! Posts: 599	Is it possible that having added the light footman for all civs and then doing civ specific ones means that each civ can build two; the gereric and the specific? __________________ ppp Come to CAMELOT! We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. Anonymous

Aug 11, 2008, 08:22 PM	#4
WildWeazel Maker of Worlds Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\ Posts: 6,689 Images: 11	The AI treats different available strategies as different units. If a unit is given both offense and defense strategies in the editor for example, the AI will get 2 identical units, one for offense and one for defense, and use them accordingly. It's nothing to worry about, just another AI-ism. __________________ Civilization + Minecraft = CIVCRAFT 2.0 Don't have Conquests? Let me help you out. MOD \| FOLD \| BLOG \| TWEET

Aug 12, 2008, 04:03 AM	#6
AncientOne Johnny Juwarra Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 501	I think Weasel Op is right about that, so this is actually still this one unit and that's why you can build only one.. but AI is so stupid that it needs the unit that has both offence and deffense strategies to be split into two units, so AI can choose which strategy it actually uses. Include bombing, scouting or something else, and you probbably see even more units for AI in debug mode. __________________ Stay honest side

Aug 12, 2008, 04:31 AM	#7
Keroro Dororo: Ninja Frog Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Hinata Residence Posts: 1,789 Images: 8	I've noticed this effect when in debug mode too, I always wondered what caused it. I guess the way to be sure is to remove one of the AI flags from the unit in question and see how many times it comes up on the AI build queue then. __________________ cross post with Mirc

Aug 11, 2008, 05:11 PM	#2
kulade Deity Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,553	Does it affect gameplay? If not it's probably just a glitch in debug and I wouldn't worry about it...

Aug 12, 2008, 08:41 AM	#8
Grandraem Alchemist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Below. Posts: 2,043	Thanks for all the info. I guess that it's probably nothing to worry about. I'll try removing the defence flag and see what happens though, just for curiosity. Azmorg, I mentioned that I just added the Light Footman just in case, but I don't think that it is causing the problem, because the warrior upgrades into the light footman at Bronze Working, and this is happening even before any civ reaches Bronze Working. Also, each civ only has one warrior buildable by them in the editor, it just appears as two identical warriors in their build list in the game. __________________ D&D Mod: Champions of Mystara - Coming whenever it gets done! ... Working hard on it! My Leaderheads are all available from the Civ III Downloads Database. Alternate Leaderhead PCXs for Brennus, Ragnar, Hannibal, and Gilgamesh: Here Stormrage, your orcish awesomeness is missed!

Aug 12, 2008, 08:50 AM	#9
Grandraem Alchemist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Below. Posts: 2,043	I tested it, and it appears that Weasel Op is right. I removed the defence flag from the dwarf warrior and they could build only 1. I also tried playing against a human civ and they could still build two warriors. Thanks again everyone, for your help. __________________ D&D Mod: Champions of Mystara - Coming whenever it gets done! ... Working hard on it! My Leaderheads are all available from the Civ III Downloads Database. Alternate Leaderhead PCXs for Brennus, Ragnar, Hannibal, and Gilgamesh: Here Stormrage, your orcish awesomeness is missed!

Aug 12, 2008, 12:20 PM	#10
Stazro Prince Join Date: May 2006 Location: at the shores of Rhine Posts: 414	Does this mean the AI is not able to to switch one unit from defensive to offensive use, because it hasn't build it as such? __________________ Replay the rise and fall of the roman empire and read a complete story about the glory of Rome (in 22 Chapters with about 330 screenshots)!

Aug 12, 2008, 05:32 PM	#12
BadKharma Deity Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 3,692	Yes at times it is very frustrating however the AI will use the infantryman in the epic game for both attack and defense which it is flagged for both so I have to wonder. __________________ Visit Storm Over Civ *AIGA* member And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword, Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

Aug 13, 2008, 02:52 AM	#14
Vuldacon Deity Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: USA Posts: 5,129	I agree that the AI chooses only one Unit for Attack and one for Defense when Building them...this provides direct coding to the AI for game play direction. ...That said, a unit that is built as an Attacking Unit does have a Defense, so certainly this so called Attacking Unit will defend IF attacked. ...The AI builds Units and controls their actions by their abilities, Attack, Defense, scouting, worker, etc... and these are separated for them so it is direct. Because the AI cannot control others Attacking them, the AI will of course use any unit with a defense when needed in a city, even if that unit was built for the purpose of Attacking. In other words, the AI will use any Unit it has to Defend a city when attacked but this is due to the fact that the attacking unit happens to be in the City and has a Defense. when it comes to the AI attacking in the game, that will be with Attacking Units that were built for that purpose. Naturally we will see more Defensive units inside the Cities...all due to this coding that Tells the AI what to build and what to use in order to provide some characteristic of "intelligence" to them. If Not for that type of coding, we would see Workers attacking and Riflemen planting a garden, etc... __________________ Cheers, Vuldacon Escape From Zombie Island 2 Complete Hegemon Age of Imperialism Deluxe; 1895-1924 Escape From Zombie Island 2: The Remake

Aug 13, 2008, 07:21 AM	#15
Keroro Dororo: Ninja Frog Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Hinata Residence Posts: 1,789 Images: 8	^ What he said. I think of the times I've had a slave ending up in enemy territory. The AI side has say Mech Inf in their cities, which could come out on railroads, take the slave, get back to it's city and fortify itself again. But it doesn't do that. It will take slaves if it has attack flagged units to use, but not with defence units. You can rest assured that the AI isn't going to make any attacks with defensive units. The partial relief to this is the AI no patrol change to the .ini file, which seems to make the AI a little more interesting. __________________ cross post with Mirc

Aug 17, 2008, 10:11 AM	#16
Ozymandias Civ3 Modding Archivist Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The lone and level sands Posts: 8,476	The AI definitely assigns one strategy per unit and keeps it that way. "Defensive" units often show up with attacking troops of the same type because the AI will often support Attackers with Defenders. -Oz __________________ "God of our fathers, known of old -- Lord of our far-flung battle line -- Beneath whose awful hand we hold Dominion over palm and pine -- Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet, Lest we forget -- lest we forget!" May you be at peace, General 666

Aug 20, 2008, 11:23 AM	#19
againsttheflow unpolitically uncorrect Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: northern CA Posts: 1,985	Ok, thanks. I could never remember whether it was that or AINoPatrol.

Aug 20, 2008, 02:49 PM	#20
BadKharma Deity Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 3,692	What exactly does that edit acheive? __________________ Visit Storm Over Civ *AIGA* member And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword, Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

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