Erebus map vs Custom_continents map

[vasquiu]

Hi!

I have started to play with this great mod with a friend in multiplayer mode, and I have a doubt: We usually play in earth2 or custom_continents maps in a custom game in normal civ, but I have seen that there's a erebus map that can be chosen in the mod. I have played with the dwarfs civilization and in Erebus map they always start with mountains and hills (nice for dwarfs) but in custom_continents they start in normal places (near sea, near flood plains, etc).

My doubt is: Is better to play a custom game in erebus map instead custom_continents one? The civs have more suited starter places in erebus map?

Thanks!

[Vanion]

The Erebus mapscript will try to create "fitting" positions for every race, yes. It will try to place Malakim in deserts (with lots of flood plains, of course), dwarves in hills, elves in forests, Lanun near the coast, Doviello in tundra etc etc.
Actually, you can tune the starting positions to your needs in the mapscript, although it needs a little fiddling with the script file and that's not for everyone

I'm still not sure if I find all of these positions balanced against each other, but it adds a lot of flavor and variance to the maps. Now, which mapscript is "better"? Everyone has to decide for himself, as I think it's a question of taste.

[Marksman77]

I recommend FlavourMod 2. It gives you a game option to 'flavourize' any chosen mapscript, so that dwarfs are likely to start near hills etc.

[JDexter]

Some more information:
The starting plots that the civs get assigned are not chosen by the map script according to the civs - they are only distributed.

So if you have a list of possible starting plots (Civ makes sure they are good enough if you don't pick too many civs for the map size) the Malakim get the one that has the most desert, the Amurites the one with the most mana nodes close by etc.
But the location of the starts is not modified to fit the civs, just the assignment .

[abculatter2]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=261688

^^^ that should give you more detail on the map-script (the scripts are the same, kael just renamed it)

[evanb]

In my first Ljosalfar game on a map generated with the Erebus script, I started in a wonderful and deep deep jungle. Hell of a start :| Guess what I beelined to...

[vasquiu]

Yesterday I started another game with my friends with the calabim civ and was very funny. I started in a forest that remember me a lot of sylvania of Warhammer or the Black Forest of Lord of the Rings. With a lot of spiders. That is flavour!

[Pyr0mancer]

Originally Posted by evanb

In my first Ljosalfar game on a map generated with the Erebus script, I started in a wonderful and deep deep jungle. Hell of a start :| Guess what I beelined to...

KotE and Elementalism for fire mana?
That's actually what I would go for rather than Sanitation if I had a mana node remotely close by, since it comes sooner and burning down jungles turns them into forests.

I actually don't really like the Creation/Erebus mapscript's start for the Khazad. Too many hills without nearby floodplains or even grasslands results in too little food to work those hills. One game, I had precisely 4 flatland plots in my entire starting valley, only 1 of which had access to fresh water, even after Construction. Yeah, I abandoned that game pretty quickly.

[Broken Hawk]

After getting some pretty bad starting locations for the Bannor, I've gone back to Fractal and Tectonics maps when I play them. The Erebus/Creation mapscript seems to place them in dry and hilly regions every time. They are a slow starting civ as it is.

[Senethro]

You can change the Erebus mapscript easily. The first two pages of its file are helpful customisable True/False/Insert number here options that can easily change the map without knowing programming. I turned off the FFH specific effects and make the peak borders between regions more porous.

I also altered the PerfectWorld mapscript by the same author by making it generate only Pangaeas, so its quite possible to bend these things to your needs.

[onedreamer]

the best mapscripts for FFH2 are IMO Highlands and Pangaea.
Erebus creates a visually nice world but from the gameplay point of view it leaves much to be desired.

[Marksman77]

It can really depend on the civ you're playnig. I found Creation (=Erebus) mapscript ideal for Sheiam. From the gameplay perspective, because it makes civs more isolated than other maps, giving you time to start rolling with such an lategame-powerful civ. And lorewise - what place is better for your unholy experiments that an isolated valley?
But I also saw in my games that Khazad are usually underdeveloped due to lack of food.

[Senethro]

Onedreamer likely plays similar games to myself, in which case I also recommend Inland Sea and Lakes for early action, warmongery games without the fuss of navy. The only problem is this early contact can lead to a single religion dominating, so sometimes I make sure there are no elven/dwarven/Lanun opponents and remove FoL/RoK/OO. The addition of Empyrean and Esus made this type of game more interesting.

[evanb]

@Pyr0mancer
Thanks for the tip

[Zechnophobe]

I've been liking Tectonics personally. Has some harsh ridge lines like Creation, but doesn't feel so absurdley regimented.

[Senethro]

I wanted to like Tectonics, but it always produces some large, flat, unforested, no rivers plains and grassland areas with small bits of interesting terrain in between.

What I'd really like to see is a Mediterranean + Fertile Crescent mapscript.

[cephalo]

The fact that dwarves and the Malakim don't actually do that well in their given start locations on Creation(Erebus) was actually a secret conspiracy launched by me to get those Civs changed so that they would thrive there eventually. My opinion is that Dwarves should have no need of any flatlands or rainfall or even farms. Also, I believe that the Malakim should not only survive better in desert, but actually prefer it to the extent that they might use the scorch spell to cause desertification.

So the plan was to make a map that looked soooo good that nobody would question the placement of these Civs, but rather question why the placement didn't work well.... By putting fiction over function I had hoped to alter the game by subterfuge.

[Jean Elcard]

Originally Posted by cephalo

So the plan was to make a map that looked soooo good that nobody would question the placement of these Civs, but rather question why the placement didn't work well.... By putting fiction over function I had hoped to alter the game by subterfuge.

That's also the secret reason for the placement done by my FlavourMod 2 modmod. Putting orcs in the jungle, Malakim in the desert ... Flavourwise it's exactly what they want, but at the moment it is more a challenge than anything else. For other nations it's really cool already. Give the Lanun a coastal start near some pearls and they will thrive for sure.

I'm going to update FlavourMod 2 soon, btw. The worst post-main-ffh-release patching should be over I hope.

[Warts]

I like the idea of this map but I am still toning down the sheer number or peaks. I've had maps with what looked to be around 50% peaks.

Is there a reason that there seems to be clusters of bonuses. There will be 3 to 4 sugar or wine or gems I've nioticed and very little mana.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by Warts

I like the idea of this map but I am still toning down the sheer number or peaks. I've had maps with what looked to be around 50% peaks.

Is there a reason that there seems to be clusters of bonuses. There will be 3 to 4 sugar or wine or gems I've nioticed and very little mana.

The peaks may seem shocking at first but it's all a state of mind. Just try to think of peaks as another kind of impassable ocean.

The bonuses are placed with the default methods. The Erebus map script doesn't mess with that. Some bonuses are designed in the XML to cluster to promote trade rather than self sufficiency, but really that only works well for Civ, not so much FfH in my opinion. It's kindof a leftover from Civ.