Why so many bears?

[Vorpal+5]

and so few others animals? Kael is a Bear cultist?

Slightly related questions, are animals capable of spawning in fog of war as barbs, or only from lairs?

[El_Duderino]

because usually the other animals get killed fairly quickly, the bears are stronger and last longer (elephants do too)

[Fafnir13]

I think they can spawn in the fog, but I'm not sure. It may be that they are only spawned at the beginning of the game. I know they certainly spawn quite well out of lairs, but I've only seen a lion's den once. As Duderino said, bears are just the toughest guys around, meaning they get to survive long enough to den. What would really help would be if, instead of spawning animals at the start of the game, occupied dens were spawned. That's more in keeping with the idea of a preexisting world anyways. It would also give scouts one less bit of horriblation to run into. Mine tend to die to bears a tad often...
Could we also add some limits to where certain dens can be created? Brown bears are all denning up in the north where it ought to be polar bears.

[Wauthan]

Animals spawn, as barbarians do, in the fog of war. As El_Duderino said bears stick around because they hard to kill using scouts, and the AI doesn't seem to bother neutral units that are outside its borders and in a fully mapped area. This often results in a cluster of bears that have been "squeezed" together by expanding culture.

My current record is 32 captured bears all found on the same remote tundra island. Five lairs + 350 turns = a lot of bears.

Edit: Fafnir13 makes a good point. The only polar bears I encounter are of the jungle variety. "Dudes, listen. Our lives suck. Everyone's nerves are stretched to the max. I mean, we're lost on an island, running from boars and monsters ... freakin' polar bears!" - Hurley

[Verily]

Most significantly for Bears over other animals, Bears have an improvement (Bear Dens) which spawns them, but other animals do not.

[Zechnophobe]

Yeah, Lions and wolves can upgrade to Lion Prides and Wolf Packs, but have to get a 'kill' first, whereas bears can just BUILD a bear den.

I've never really understood why we bother with the wolf/lion upgrades... how often do they win?

[Ahriman]

Bears spawn from bear dens, AND bear dens are usually located on tundra, which means they are at the polar regions which are poor terrain and so are much more likely to remain unsettled and undestroyed.

[reveler]

I always rely on bears for culture and like in the good old days have a pack of scouts roaming around just to haul in the bears. the sad thing about the AI is that they never capture animals, but just kill everything in sight.

So please leave the bears alone. ( I hope this doesn't sound as whiney as "Leave Britney alone!") ^_^

[Charybdis]

Killing a bear should aggro every bear in a 20 tile radius. I mean you're really killing their friend.

[Avahz Darkwood]

Polar Bears in Jungle?! = Global warming! Who say they are endangered they seem to adapt pretty well to me

[Arcite36575]

Originally Posted by Charybdis

Killing a bear should aggro every bear in a 20 tile radius. I mean you're really killing their friend.

I'm not an animal expert, but I think that bears are solitary animals, and would probably be glad to see their competitors turned into bear rugs.

[MagisterCultuum]

Originally Posted by Arcite36575

I'm not an animal expert, but I think that bears are solitary animals, and would probably be glad to see their competitors turned into bear rugs.

I was about to say the same thing. Of course, if you killed a bear cub, and the mother was nearby, then you'd be in big trouble.

[Fafnir13]

My friends and I find it ironic that the bear cub is usually the last surviving model in combat. Your great and glorious hunter kills these two, enormous and vicious bears only to get splatted by the cub.

[Sarisin]

Bears are a great capture in the early game, especially when you want that culture boost to your new city before you can build a Monument.

However, after you get a Bear for each city to entertain the populace, the map is loaded with them. I know it depends a lot on the size/type of map you use, but I find in all my games there is a bear explosion.

I was thinking that having so many Bears prevented the other barbs from spawning and I was seeing very few Lizardmen, Wolf Riders, Axemen, etc. So, as an experiment I went into the World Builder and deleted 159 Bears. There were still plenty on the map. I thought this would bring a real raging barbarian event, but I was wrong. In just about 50 turns all the Bears were back.

I'd like to see something in the game that would slow down their spawning. Even if the other types of animals cannot be increased at least the real barbs shouldn't be prevented by spawning by so many Bears. It is just another reason why the raging barb option doesn't work beyond the early game most of the time IMO.

[Monkeyfinger]

Originally Posted by MagisterCultuum

I was about to say the same thing. Of course, if you killed a bear cub, and the mother was nearby, then you'd be in big trouble.

Don't worry, Charybdis, at least one person here recognizes the reference you made.

[Vorpal+5]

re: Sarisin. No, animals spawning and barbs spawning count are two different variables, IIRC.

Ok, so from the lore gathered here, there are many bear because they get lairs in tundra at the start. Not so for the others animals. A pity really

[Charybdis]

Originally Posted by Monkeyfinger

Don't worry, Charybdis, at least one person here recognizes the reference you made.

Thank god, I was beginning to have serious doubts about this community :P

[Corlis]

Instead of just having the wolves and such just spawn from killing Scouts, maybe they could also set up their own lairs as well? Perhaps if such an animal ever lands on a animal-food resource (pigs, etc) it could set up a lair or a 'hunting ground' or something.

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Originally Posted by Corlis

Perhaps if such an animal ever lands on a animal-food resource (pigs, etc) it could set up a lair or a 'hunting ground' or something.

that's how it works in the latest marnokmod version IIRC. makes a lot of sense too

[Blackmantle]

Jep. But directly, without setting up a Lair. Those resources (which also encompass some Strategic ones like Reagents and Horses + some happiness ones like wine, sugar and the likes if im not mistaken. Anything sensibly consumable it seems.) work as additional creature breeding grounds. (Barbunits stay there and feed + multiply. But unlike the Lairs they don't spawn bosses i belive.)


Also wolves and lions have their types of Dens allready in main FFH 2 (wolf dens and lion dens.) they just are rarely built sadly. (I belive thats due to only packs / prides beeing able to build them and prides / especially Packs are not all that common really. Even though Wolfpacks spawn Wolves from combat. They are to weak to reagularly win though.) Only tigers and gorialls as well as elephants and spiders have no lairs in the base FFH2 i belive... (with spiders spawning baby ones on defeating something its not all that big of a problem for them.)

But thanks to the implementation of monster lairs beeing very likely in 0.34 you can expect seeing more diverse monsters / also perhaps more diverse animals comming soon to main FFH2.
Also later in the game. (With a lair part like in Marnoks Modmod it should be way easier to set that part up. If im not mistaken the team wanted to spawn other more powerful animals later in the game anyways. So... And its definately more interesting than just a common spawn with standardized units like it is now. At least imo, since i like abovementioned Modmod alot. )
So for this toppic its just wait and see. As is so often.
0.33 should have delivered enough interesting tools to entertain us with things to test and play with until then. (And always better to receive a well worked feature than a ragtag half done and tentious /crashprone one imo.)