Strategy guide how to win on patriot in 200 turns

isi

Chieftain
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Jan 14, 2006
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Czech republic
Seems that lot of people are little lost in this game. Problem is that right strategy is pretty unintuitive, you should not build big empire or specialize in one place, both quite opposite to other Civ games. After first try out game, I played two games on second hardest difficulty and each time declared independence around turn 180 and would won easily, except some bug each time caused that king stopped sending army after I beat first few waves. Anyway here is my strategy that worked fine for me, at least with France.

Go for quality not quantity. I won with 5 cities each time (standard size continental map, normal speed). With bigger empire you need more money to buy more colonist, that means more trade and that means faster tax rises and price drop. And most importantly you will need more bells to start revolution and more bells means bigger REF. So you must find point when expanding stop pay off, which is in my experience somewhere around 60 colonist. Try be maximally efficient, adapt you strategy to bonus resources you have and specialist you get early.

Two best colonist early game are scout and preacher. You absolutely need scout, early exploration get you most money and you need o be first visitor to each village and ruin. I tried it few times and it seems that you always get scout in first batch. You should send one of first two colonist on exploration to get some money, so you should hurry scout as your ship land back in Europe. If you will see preacher in second batch, go immediately for church in you first colony. Your main goal early game is to get colonist on continent as fast as possible and no other profession is so efficient in this. One colonist early cost around 50 crosses and buying cheapest specialist cost 800, thus one cross is equal of 16 gold (800:16). That means preacher generate 96 gold per turn without raising taxes (any good you sell to Europe rises chance of tax rise). Better that early is only silver miner if you get silver resources and build mine. But be ready that value of preacher drops pretty fast and when you reach 300 crosses per colonist even with cathedral one preacher just make make around 24 gold (600 for colonist with Minuit / 300 = 2 gold per cross), so its time to send that lazy preacher to natives to learn something useful. But early boost worth all that trouble.

When choosing place for second colony, check bonus resources and commodities prices. Raw material cost 3-6 randomly each game, so you really would want city around bonus resource that cost 5 or 6. Instinct of veteran Civ player says build city around bonus food resource and that tundra is bad, but it is not true here, because in Civ you can not buy population like here. Don't believe me? OK time for some math again. Tundra forest (without bonus resource) produce 6 furs, 7 with lodge, 14 with master trapper, with price of fur on 5, it is 70 gold per tile. Rising colonist by food production cost 200 food, buying colonist (with Minuit) cost 600, so one food worth 3 gold. Even on plains with corn, master farmer produce 13 food = 49 gold. Like I said, much worse than tundra forest, at least until taxes are sky high. Its trap for veteran Civ player. In Civ you build first cities around food and money resources becomes important lately, it completely opposite here. First come money generating resources and food resources becomes useful late game when prices drop and taxes rises.

Live in peace with natives (especially true for France). First you absolutely need them to obtain expert planter/trapper, because they are not available in Europe. Missions are also quiet good and vital for France, did not forget that newly produce native could be left in village that produce him to teach specialty, thus becoming normal colonist, that could take guns. Trade with natives is also important, because to be really effective you need obtain some wealth without rising taxes and causing price drop and trade with native is one of few possibilities (other are crosses, early exploration (but not money from treasure), and lately food production). Natives money are quite limited, but if you go for small empire, it should be not problem. Especially look for villages that demand guns, horses, trade goods and tools. You usually get about 2-3x European prices. So with guns you easily make around 900 gold per cargo. For other commodities you get usually little less than in Europe, but without affecting taxes. Also selling 20 pieces of one resource should be enough to change their preferences to something more profitable (hold shift if you want load less than 100 pieces). Also if you sold them horses and guns, they will be much better ally against REF, but don't count on it, because most of time they don't have contact with king, thus can not declare war on him.
I'm not sure what change Natives attitude toward you, but they never attacked me at all. Of course I send many missionaries, live among them, trade with them and give them few gifts. Being French also help and to be sure I go for one or two FF that improve relationship with them. My only concern is REF, I really don't want mess with natives. With good relationship they start giving you villages instead of fighting if you surround them. But giving here means that village disappear thus you lost business partner, cheap school, source of colonist and war ally for absolutely no gain, never except this “gift”.

Never use army except after revolution. OK, probably somebody uses other tactic, but with current AI, other nations and natives don't mean treat. I played entire game with 0 – 2 soldier and nobody tried attack me, soldier is just wasted colonist. Also soldier even outside colony count as normal colonist toward maximum bells you must produce to start revolution. And again, more bells = bigger REF, so its pointless to build army prior revolution. You really just need stack tons of horses and guns, I would say about 400 – 500 per city (unfortunately you could stack just 300 per city, so you will need lots of extra wagons, enjoy your micromanagement hell).

Most important thing (also quiet stupid), start revolution as soon as you reach 50% rebel sentiment. Otherwise you just let REF grow bigger much faster than you will profit from production bonus, especially with taxes that will be around 30% at this point. Also with one civic you could make +50% bell production and so reach 100% sentiment in few turns. Not that it really matters, because you turn most of colonist into army, so production bonus is wasted and military bonus only count on settlement defense. But most of REF army consist of artillery with power 4 and +150% bonus on city attack, so they attack with power 10. If you think that right strategy is turtle in city with cannons, forget it. Your canon will defend with 50% rebel sentiment with power 5,25. Even if you are Bolivar, waste resources on fort, get 100% sentiment and build cities just on hills, you still get just 11,25 (3 base, +100% sentiment, +25 hill defense, +50% city defense, +100% form fort). On the other hand if you will go for all cavalry army, you get +50% bonus against artillery. So you will get 6:4 against artillery, 4:3 against soldiers and 4:4 against cavalry. Does not look so great, because even if you will stick with my strategy, REF should outnumber about like 1:5. But fortunately they come in small waves, so you just whip them as they land on your shoes and have around 3 turns to heal. With all promotion coming, you should get 2 generals and few military FF so even when you lost few units, your militia army will be soon superior.
Also forget about navy, you stand no chance against man-o-war. Wining on sea is not necessary and all that tools and guns used to make ships of lane are total waste. Don't ask me how are you suppose win on island map.

Last thing, always go for Peter Minuit, other FF are mediocre to completely useless, he is broken and you also get him first. Again poor design choice.
 
I am not so sure always going for the crossing first is the way to go. A lot should depend on your LEADER, and TERRAIN you settled, AND what is available.

Getting Willem (Industrious), with a great forrested spot, AND lumberjacks & carpenters available soon in europe to board the boats seems to feel like the priority early.

Anyhow, one thing you missed is that when exploring you also get exploration points. 3 per tile for ships, and even more for land.

I also disagree that OTHER fathers are mediocre at best. Sure some are useless, but you seriously think getting all those free military promotions, and Gun/hammer boosters, and extra food boosters, etc.. etc.. etc.. is just mediocre?
 
If you use this strategy, with no soldiers whatsoever before WoI, you should make very sure you stay on the good side of the natives. They CAN be a significant threat and do declare war if you neglect them. I wonder if trading + missionaries is enough to prevent them becoming aggressive if you're not French.
 
If you use this strategy, with no soldiers whatsoever before WoI, you should make very sure you stay on the good side of the natives. They CAN be a significant threat and do declare war if you neglect them. I wonder if trading + missionaries is enough to prevent them becoming aggressive if you're not French.

Seems very difficult, I've been killing them off in this late stage. Early on you get huge incentives to staying friendly though even as spain.
 
I am not so sure always going for the crossing first is the way to go. A lot should depend on your LEADER, and TERRAIN you settled, AND what is available. Getting Willem (Industrious), with a great forrested spot, AND lumberjacks & carpenters available soon in europe to board the boats seems to feel like the priority early.

First colony should be nearly always about raw material to start economy ASAP. And which building you want if n first that star make money at beginning. There is none, except church, dock could when until colony start starving, which should be with fish after 6th colonist and to make profit form factories you need first have work at least on two tiles and also need 2 specialist. You should first have 2 cities on raw materials with 3-4 colonist (somewhere around turn 40) before you go for lumberjack + 2 carpenter combo, with them I usually start new city where I will be building all the factories. If you start with lumberjack + carpenter you will seriously behind. Not that this really matter, because AI never beat REF, so you need not hurry. But I'm trying win ASAP, because there is no other real challenge and maybe one day they make competent AI which really put clock on you on hardest difficulty.


Anyhow, one thing you missed is that when exploring you also get exploration points. 3 per tile for ships, and even more for land.I also disagree that OTHER fathers are mediocre at best. Sure some are useless, but you seriously think getting all those free military promotions, and Gun/hammer boosters, and extra food boosters, etc.. etc.. etc.. is just mediocre?

Yes I know you get exploration points, but all exploration FF sucks. Getting extra profit from ruins, showing all ruins. OK sound nice, but at the time you get them, at least on normal size map, you already explored like 80-90% of continent. FF that boost for example fur production is nice, but if you don't want skip all other FF it comes like 20 turns before you start WoI, after which is all fur production pointless. Good FFs are probably one that give you 3 extra colonist, also +50% form missionaries is nice because he comes soon and you can manage to get with other FF 3 jesuit missionaries.
 
some flawed math in here together "that worked for me that must be best" logic which is just dumb

For example Food is way better then u make it out to be - why?
No Tax raise, u dont consume your "free" cross gold, U get your people right in place without shiping.

A sea city with 2 Fishes and 2 Fishers working get u people so fast - and u have NOTHING to do there - just wait see them pop.

Also LOL @ Preacher - 1. of u have to build a church 1. to even be able to have him work - when there are way better stuff to build in early cities.
2 nd - dont bother with crosses they just aint worth it in medium run.

The 2 most important tips i d give are:
1. - SCOUT - SCOUT - SCOUT - well visiting some indians or treasure sites is even a good Idea before planting 1. city (or 2nd at least).
Then have at least 1 Horse scout exploring whole map (if there s non on docks buy Horses)

2. Get some small cities and produce political points to get minuit fast - once u got him just get all the specialists u need, get 3 master workers for your saw and make a great cap - then it s straightforward imo.

And yes it might be easier to win with a small empire but it s possible with a big one aswell - no chesse tacic needed for a good player
 
Completly agree with scouts, early exploration is most important.

I prefer as fast start as posible and at the beging food is not worth it, I mean its good to have food resources in first city, but should not be first tile you start working on. And until taxes are low you just should use food resource to support more specialist not to rise new colonist.
Of course you need get money into system without trade with europe and the food becomes important, also for same reason I think croses woth the trouble, you should get around 10 colonist with them pretty fast.

But of course I'm alwasy interested in other strategies, best if you send your saved game around turn 50.
 
well this game I started a bit "chessy" even when I didnt want to - ai was planting empty cities right beside my borders - so I took them - razed some 1 sizers took 2 bigger ones - they were placed bit crappy so I built food and political points only there - In my coastal city I did let 1. guy work a mountan for silver while I built my "cap" inland.
Then a fast 2nd carvel to be able to buy gunsnHorses to trade with indiands and ship new people same time
- got 3 speial worker into my saw fast and now a fast tabaco factory - with the poitical poitnts from ai city minuit fast and well - even when i could still get people from docks very cheap i just get my specialists and a galleon.

Then I did need new room - 5 canons on my galleon and wiping 1 indian (while I got peace with other - building missionaries and training people there)

Thats about turn 50 now - think I got like 45 people - 40 of em specialists

Think from there on the desicion whether to go big or start stockpilling guns n Horses allready have to be made
 
I agree with the strategy you laid out. That's pretty much what I came to myself. The thing I would add is that you should lay out your 5 settlements like a T or a lollypop standing on the coast. That is, one coastal city you abandon. A battleground city inland from it. Your capital, fourth and fifth cities inland from the battleground.
 
This is what I did (revolutionary):

Begun building liberty bells at 141 turns
Revolution at 181 turns
Victory at 207 turns

1 settlement only
Settlement had 1 fish, tobacco (did not use). City itself was founded next to a river, the city (settlement) square gave me 4 sugar (used to get extra $), but only provided 3 food (even though the square showed 4, so the food bonus from rivers doesn't count for cities I guess). Two lumber plots, ore plot. I mined the ore plot. Had a expert ore miner to provide ore. No lumberjacks. One fisherman (from indian village learning). Everything else was colonists with no specialists (except the 1 carpenter and statesmen, and one master farmer).

Since I was a libertarian, I used the cross advantage for religious unrest up to the 84 cross requirement limit break. Never paid for religious unrest except for two scouts and an a 90 dollar master carpenter for start. Did not have a preacher. However, if I did have a preacher I would have ended up with 4 extra units at the end from religious unrest (not a great bonus but it can help depending on your settlement).

Build strat: Church, Dock, Warehouse, Lumbermill -> Then it was rotating between FF points and whatever else was there. Ended up with Stables, Armory, Newspaper, Fortress (built this for fun), and ever other turn was spent on FF points (nothing better to do, and might as well get the bonuses).

Exploration: On a standard map, yielded about 12k gold from treasures/chiefs. Used initial gold to buy myself a Galleon, which then I used to transport the rest of the map's treasures back. Both scouts allowed me to dominate the map for exploration.

Trade: Capitalized on Sugar and indian gifts to give myself a good 3k boost. Also traded guns and horses to indians for another 8k. Total gold for the game was 20k. All gold that I was left with was spent buying guns and horses at 200 per horse stack, and 600 per gun stack.

Specialists: I did buy 3 elder statesmen for the hell of it. I was too busy pumping out FF every other turn that I forgot to grab the dude who gives you 3 statesmen for free. Woops!

Liberty Bell production: Newspaper + John Jay + Sam Adams + Rebels + 3 statesment = 72+ bells per turn.

King of England relationship: I accepted the tax raise everytime to reap extra FF benefits from raised taxes (like gun making or extra liberty bells). No effect on REF size. I also refused to give him my gold every time no matter how small it was. No effect on REF size.

Militia size: 18 dragoons, nothing else

My population came from +10 or more food surplus every turn + FF's who give you free colonists (sweet as hell). With my city able to pump colonists while supporting decent production in several areas, I basically had a sustainable army settlement. A good 8 settlers came from food, all turned into dragoons.

REF size: 18 regulars, 8 dragoons, 5 artillery (in 37 turns from 0% to 50% liberty bell generation). Started at 8 regulars, 4 dragoons, 4 artillery (might be off a little for regulars since I didnt care about those).

Refused any indian village gifts (wasnt French, traded twice and pillaged much gold from them for crappy horses, and they were trying to dump land on me all over the place).

Right before I declared independence, I blew my cash on guns/horses, built 4 wagons, dumped all the resources into my galleon/wagons.

Post Independence

No need to pull people off production. Food surplus was +10-16. Switched people off church or liberty bells to armory and ranch (built ranch post independence in 3 turns). Kept producing FF points.

King lands REF not very far away, starts pounding my settlement since it was coastal. I move two groups of 5 dragoons out and blow up the first wave 3 squares away from my city. Repeat twice more afterwards, and victory.

Militia at end: 18 dragoons (lost 8 dragoons, replaced 8 dragoons, 4 pop came from civics for free population, 2 came from pop boom, 2 from FF). Also had enough guns/horses to pull more soldiers/dragoons from my 16 population settlement that was still producing weapons/horses.

Not sure if pumping liberty bells is considered cheese, but it certainly kept the REF small even on Revolutionary. Other cheeses: Non-commercial economy. Also, does anyone know what OSC changes? I was not playing on OSC and ended up with one settlement anyways.
 
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