Pre-EkoNES: Fall From Heaven - Page 8

Immaculate · Mar 01, 2009, 04:19 PM

I think you should release the map so we can fight over territory like the rabid dogs we are.

I.

thomas.berubeg · Mar 01, 2009, 04:22 PM

that would be good.

Ekolite · Mar 02, 2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate

I think you should release the map so we can fight over territory like the rabid dogs we are.

I.

Unfortunately teh map still isn't finished. I haven't had a chance to even look at the tutorial links you sent me. I may be able to release a blank map later on, probably the weekend as I'm not sure I'll have a huge amount of time this week.

Ekolite · Mar 04, 2009, 01:13 AM

Stay tuned: An example stats spreadsheet will be up in here as soon as I get back from college. All players must download this spreadsheet before the game starts.

I will answer any questions you have, although I have put numerous comments on the spreadsheet to explain its more ambiguous parts.

Ekolite · Mar 04, 2009, 02:13 PM

Ok, excel files cannot be uploaded to the so all players must PM me their email address and I will send an email containing the example stats.

This is very important so please send you email address as soon as possible.

LDiCesare · Mar 04, 2009, 02:23 PM

Why don't you just zip the excel file and upload the zip?

thomas.berubeg · Mar 04, 2009, 02:27 PM

you know mine already.

Ekolite · Mar 04, 2009, 02:31 PM

Real stats will all be sent by email, it makes sense to send the example stat in the same way to help find any potential problems.

Algeroth · Mar 04, 2009, 02:41 PM

Do you have mine? You haven't send me a PM back.

hbar · Mar 05, 2009, 10:00 AM

Now that Kenkrajen's in, can I claim the reserve spot?

Ekolite · Mar 05, 2009, 12:30 PM

Yes you can, although I haven't contacted kenkrajen to ask if he wants a player slot (he's on teh reserve list but I thought I'd ask anyway), if he doesn't want it you can have it.

Immaculate · Mar 05, 2009, 12:32 PM

Did you get my e-mail Eko? I cant open your file.

kenkrajen · Mar 05, 2009, 07:37 PM

o yeah count me in

Ekolite · Mar 06, 2009, 01:46 AM

Stats Email has been sent to:

Alegroth
Immaculate
Killerclowns
LDiCesare
MasterofDisasta
thomas.berubeg

Anyone not on this list that is playing must get their email address in asap.

Immaculate · Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 AM

I had a look at the stats e-mail and at first glance it appears complicated but i soon figured it out- once you click on the formula (so it shows what cells are involved) its actually quite straight-forward and user-friendly.

Also- i like the gangs rampaging across the streets vying control for icing sugar or whatever it was- that was a nice touch.

Now for the map.... jajaja

LDiCesare · Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 AM

A few questions on the file.
Some are just silly questions for you in order to make sure your sheet can withstand a few turns of wickedness from the players. Others are clarification requests.

Banked espionage points are global, not linked to a specific nation?

Can we expect to have more than 5 mana nodes?

I have an issue with your workforce example. You write Gatherers = 4xcommunal farm and below there is "Farm" with "1 Ga" but a 0 before (current). What do the current mean? I count 5 gatherers in the "Employed" column. If only the "current" must be counted, why is there a figure in the employed (C/D33)?

Why is health total contribution -3% when the above cell is -4%?

Can you explain "Faith of Priesthood"? Is that the faith of the people or a measure of how much the priesthood actually doesn't care about its god(s)?
The Religion Paganism 94% is not linked to the army kinds above? What's the difference with faith above? Is the 94% number of believers, then what are the 6% (atheists/agnostics?). Faith points are related solely to the number of temples, or are they related to the population? I don't think the player should know the amount of faith points a given religion has, since no ruler knows whats in the mind of their subject. Proportion of a religion sounds ok, degree of faith/devotion/fanaticism is already harder to assess imo. That's more detail than I would like to handle personally.

Immaculate · Mar 06, 2009, 04:23 AM

Maybe i missed something-obviously LDi has a keener eye than I.

Ekolite · Mar 06, 2009, 09:53 AM

Ok, questions questions. I'll start with faith.

Faith is nothing more then a mechanism to control the strength of your priesthood. It is linked to the amount of temples and religious buildings of the specific religion. Faith is how many and how strong religious spells you priests can use. Basic priests will probably be able to use spells requiring 2 ''faith'' per turn, whereas High Priests maybe 5 ''faith'' per turn. They can use spells of lower faith then that if they need to but they wont be as powerful.

In FFH, the priesthood cast spells through prayer to their god and channeling their energies, if a God does not wish you to cast the spell, perhaps you have lost their favour or the God does not want to harm your target, then the spell fails. Basically, by this logic, the more temples you have, the more your god favours you, the stronger spells you can cast. Also, the more and better temples you have the more young apprentices will be training to become priests. There may be events that lead to a temporary increase or decrease in faith. For simplicities sake, faith is not directly linked to the amount of people following that faith, although many temples will likely require a certain proportion of the people to be following the faith to build.

I need to keep track of the proportion of religions in each city for religious events. The best and easiest way for me to do this is to keep it in the city data. Also, it allows me to set a minimum requirement of a religion for the construction of temples, which ties in nicely with the faith mechanic.

Just to get this absolutely, completely straingtened out ''Faith'' does not represent the degree of devotion or fanaticism of the populace, or even the faith of the populace. I might change the name of Faith to ''Favour'' which I think fits the definition better.

Espionage cannot be banked in the same way as gold or food, it can only be invested in long running espionage missions. That is what the entries meant. I will change the stat to ''Invested Espionage Points''.

I don't think more then 5 mana nodes are likely, no. However, there all mana nodes are upgradable, starting with lowly ''Stone Circles'' and working their way up. Higher levelled mana nodes provide more mana of their mana type, so if your question was more along the lines of ''Can we expect to have more then 5 mana?'', then yes very much so, as there are also various other ways to get mana, including rituals.

Regarding health: The spreadsheet was adding hhealth from resources in both cells, this is not corrected so that the wheat resource is only giving the intended 1% health.

Regarding Gatherers: The extra gatherer was an oversight, I was going through the process of upgrading farms to communal farms which is why farms were even listed at all.

If anyone has any more questions or needs anything else clarified then feel free to ask, as LdiCesare has already found one bug in my spreadsheet and there may be more in there still. I will go through everything and check the formluae, although it is easy to overlook something you've done yourself.

LDiCesare · Mar 06, 2009, 10:27 AM

The 5 mana thing was more linked to the fact you'll have to add rows should someone find some. Shouldn't be a problem if it happens.

Quote:

Basically, by this logic, the more temples you have, the more your god favours you, the stronger spells you can cast.

This doesn't fit all religions. In particular, the Council of Esus:

Quote:

An oddity among the religions the Council of Esus has no disciples, priests, high priests or temples. Instead all of its abilities are practiced by units that worship the religion. Any unit that worships Esus can pay to spread religion in a city. That theme, paying for miracles, is common in the Council of Esus.

I'm not sure Ceridwen would attract temples either although she'd have followers. The Dagda would probably have few followers. And maybe markets could act as temples of Mammon?

Ekolite · Mar 06, 2009, 10:34 AM

The thing is, when I say temples I effectively mean any religious building. For example, a ''temple'' to Mamnon could be a bazaar, a ''temple'' of Esus could be a thieves guild, these will provide faith as well as any other benefits. Likewise, some priests are agents, some are ritualists, etc etc.

I will be using the Council of Esus in a non-religious way, more like the guild I've always thought it should be. However worship of Esus seperate from this is fine.

Also, I disagree that ''Faith'' doesn't fit all religions, for example, maybe the followers of Esus are such good thieves because they have their God's favour, maybe they don't get caught because they subconsciously pray to Esus for invisibility just as they hear the owner of the house coming down the stairs. Temples are not the only way that faith can be aquired though, and if there are any serious problems I will allow for other ways of obtaining faith specifically for those religions.

Mar 01, 2009, 04:19 PM	#141
Immaculate unerring Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,700	I think you should release the map so we can fight over territory like the rabid dogs we are. I. __________________ Immaculate's Dreams and Legends This is ImmacuNES - ain't nobody got it easy. (HBar) Orders Due Thursday May 16th, 2013, in

Mar 04, 2009, 01:13 AM	#144
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Stay tuned: An example stats spreadsheet will be up in here as soon as I get back from college. All players must download this spreadsheet before the game starts. I will answer any questions you have, although I have put numerous comments on the spreadsheet to explain its more ambiguous parts. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92

Mar 04, 2009, 02:13 PM	#145
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Ok, excel files cannot be uploaded to the so all players must PM me their email address and I will send an email containing the example stats. This is very important so please send you email address as soon as possible. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92

Mar 04, 2009, 02:31 PM	#148
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Real stats will all be sent by email, it makes sense to send the example stat in the same way to help find any potential problems. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92

Mar 04, 2009, 02:41 PM	#149
Algeroth 8 and 1/2 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Прага Posts: 1,064	Do you have mine? You haven't send me a PM back. __________________ Whose couch is this? It's a sofa, baby. Whose sofa is this? Freud's. Who's Freud? Freud's dead baby... Freud's dead. Ask a Biologist We thrived on big cities - Kuriotates in FfH NES

Mar 01, 2009, 04:22 PM	#142
thomas.berubeg Divine Wrath of Junil! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 6,146	that would be good.

Mar 04, 2009, 02:23 PM	#146
LDiCesare Deity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: France Posts: 2,117	Why don't you just zip the excel file and upload the zip?

Mar 04, 2009, 02:27 PM	#147
thomas.berubeg Divine Wrath of Junil! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 6,146	you know mine already.

Mar 05, 2009, 10:00 AM	#150
hbar Constant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,282	Now that Kenkrajen's in, can I claim the reserve spot?

Mar 05, 2009, 12:30 PM	#151
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Yes you can, although I haven't contacted kenkrajen to ask if he wants a player slot (he's on teh reserve list but I thought I'd ask anyway), if he doesn't want it you can have it. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92

Mar 05, 2009, 12:32 PM	#152
Immaculate unerring Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,700	Did you get my e-mail Eko? I cant open your file. __________________ Immaculate's Dreams and Legends This is ImmacuNES - ain't nobody got it easy. (HBar) Orders Due Thursday May 16th, 2013, in

Mar 05, 2009, 07:37 PM	#153
kenkrajen Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Village (becomes a Town in 24 turns Posts: 365	o yeah count me in

Mar 06, 2009, 01:46 AM	#154
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Stats Email has been sent to: Alegroth Immaculate Killerclowns LDiCesare MasterofDisasta thomas.berubeg Anyone not on this list that is playing must get their email address in asap. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92 Last edited by Ekolite; Mar 06, 2009 at 02:08 AM.

Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 AM	#155
Immaculate unerring Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,700	I had a look at the stats e-mail and at first glance it appears complicated but i soon figured it out- once you click on the formula (so it shows what cells are involved) its actually quite straight-forward and user-friendly. Also- i like the gangs rampaging across the streets vying control for icing sugar or whatever it was- that was a nice touch. Now for the map.... jajaja __________________ Immaculate's Dreams and Legends This is ImmacuNES - ain't nobody got it easy. (HBar) Orders Due Thursday May 16th, 2013, in

Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 AM	#156
LDiCesare Deity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: France Posts: 2,117	A few questions on the file. Some are just silly questions for you in order to make sure your sheet can withstand a few turns of wickedness from the players. Others are clarification requests. Banked espionage points are global, not linked to a specific nation? Can we expect to have more than 5 mana nodes? I have an issue with your workforce example. You write Gatherers = 4xcommunal farm and below there is "Farm" with "1 Ga" but a 0 before (current). What do the current mean? I count 5 gatherers in the "Employed" column. If only the "current" must be counted, why is there a figure in the employed (C/D33)? Why is health total contribution -3% when the above cell is -4%? Can you explain "Faith of Priesthood"? Is that the faith of the people or a measure of how much the priesthood actually doesn't care about its god(s)? The Religion Paganism 94% is not linked to the army kinds above? What's the difference with faith above? Is the 94% number of believers, then what are the 6% (atheists/agnostics?). Faith points are related solely to the number of temples, or are they related to the population? I don't think the player should know the amount of faith points a given religion has, since no ruler knows whats in the mind of their subject. Proportion of a religion sounds ok, degree of faith/devotion/fanaticism is already harder to assess imo. That's more detail than I would like to handle personally.

Mar 06, 2009, 04:23 AM	#157
Immaculate unerring Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,700	Maybe i missed something-obviously LDi has a keener eye than I. __________________ Immaculate's Dreams and Legends This is ImmacuNES - ain't nobody got it easy. (HBar) Orders Due Thursday May 16th, 2013, in

Mar 06, 2009, 09:53 AM	#158
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	Ok, questions questions. I'll start with faith. Faith is nothing more then a mechanism to control the strength of your priesthood. It is linked to the amount of temples and religious buildings of the specific religion. Faith is how many and how strong religious spells you priests can use. Basic priests will probably be able to use spells requiring 2 ''faith'' per turn, whereas High Priests maybe 5 ''faith'' per turn. They can use spells of lower faith then that if they need to but they wont be as powerful. In FFH, the priesthood cast spells through prayer to their god and channeling their energies, if a God does not wish you to cast the spell, perhaps you have lost their favour or the God does not want to harm your target, then the spell fails. Basically, by this logic, the more temples you have, the more your god favours you, the stronger spells you can cast. Also, the more and better temples you have the more young apprentices will be training to become priests. There may be events that lead to a temporary increase or decrease in faith. For simplicities sake, faith is not directly linked to the amount of people following that faith, although many temples will likely require a certain proportion of the people to be following the faith to build. I need to keep track of the proportion of religions in each city for religious events. The best and easiest way for me to do this is to keep it in the city data. Also, it allows me to set a minimum requirement of a religion for the construction of temples, which ties in nicely with the faith mechanic. Just to get this absolutely, completely straingtened out ''Faith'' does not represent the degree of devotion or fanaticism of the populace, or even the faith of the populace. I might change the name of Faith to ''Favour'' which I think fits the definition better. Espionage cannot be banked in the same way as gold or food, it can only be invested in long running espionage missions. That is what the entries meant. I will change the stat to ''Invested Espionage Points''. I don't think more then 5 mana nodes are likely, no. However, there all mana nodes are upgradable, starting with lowly ''Stone Circles'' and working their way up. Higher levelled mana nodes provide more mana of their mana type, so if your question was more along the lines of ''Can we expect to have more then 5 mana?'', then yes very much so, as there are also various other ways to get mana, including rituals. Regarding health: The spreadsheet was adding hhealth from resources in both cells, this is not corrected so that the wheat resource is only giving the intended 1% health. Regarding Gatherers: The extra gatherer was an oversight, I was going through the process of upgrading farms to communal farms which is why farms were even listed at all. If anyone has any more questions or needs anything else clarified then feel free to ask, as LdiCesare has already found one bug in my spreadsheet and there may be more in there still. I will go through everything and check the formluae, although it is easy to overlook something you've done yourself. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92 Last edited by Ekolite; Mar 06, 2009 at 10:09 AM.

Mar 06, 2009, 10:34 AM	#160
Ekolite The Mighty Jungle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Celtia Atrebatia Posts: 4,806	The thing is, when I say temples I effectively mean any religious building. For example, a ''temple'' to Mamnon could be a bazaar, a ''temple'' of Esus could be a thieves guild, these will provide faith as well as any other benefits. Likewise, some priests are agents, some are ritualists, etc etc. I will be using the Council of Esus in a non-religious way, more like the guild I've always thought it should be. However worship of Esus seperate from this is fine. Also, I disagree that ''Faith'' doesn't fit all religions, for example, maybe the followers of Esus are such good thieves because they have their God's favour, maybe they don't get caught because they subconsciously pray to Esus for invisibility just as they hear the owner of the house coming down the stairs. Temples are not the only way that faith can be aquired though, and if there are any serious problems I will allow for other ways of obtaining faith specifically for those religions. __________________ ''Ah but America is America. We are like Gods hence why we already control the entire world. Literally, our sphere of influence controls everything.'' Airstrike92

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