[MapScript] Erebus Continent

[Seven05]

2.64 is posted...

• Added support for Tlacatl & Palatinate civs from Orbis
• Added chance for haunted lands in ancient ruins (not just graveyards)
• Added check for Frozen Civ, if found Crystal plains aren't placed
• Fixed harmless python exceptions when playing Orbis

[[to_xp]Gekko]

would it be possible to have the script NOT place patrian artifacts if the Scions are not in the game? possibly the same for Lanun and Pearls, but it's worse for Scions imho, watching all those useless resources in WB O.o

[Seven05]

It's possible, but I probably won't do it because of some changes in the works for one particular modmod.

[Wodan]

Originally Posted by [to_xp]Gekko

would it be possible to have the script NOT place patrian artifacts if the Scions are not in the game? possibly the same for Lanun and Pearls, but it's worse for Scions imho, watching all those useless resources in WB O.o

You're concerned because it makes you feel bad by viewing in Worldbuilder!? Nonsense.

Unless the distribution of them reduces the amount and number of non-patrian resources. But if that's the case then it is unbalanced design and THAT should be fixed. Patrian artifact resources should be in addition to other resources.

[Valkrionn]

Originally Posted by Seven05

It's possible, but I probably won't do it because of some changes in the works for one particular modmod.

Quiet, you.

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Originally Posted by Wodan

Unless the distribution of them reduces the amount and number of non-patrian resources. But if that's the case then it is unbalanced design and THAT should be fixed. Patrian artifact resources should be in addition to other resources.

this is quite possible and is the primary issue. do the acknowledgeable guys know how it works?

[Seven05]

They're placed in line just like all of the others, the 'extras' you get on my maps using the ancient ruins are placed after the fact and added only in plots that don't already have a resource. You also get extra mana, nobody ever complains about that though

There is one way it can interfere with your games, but it's pretty insignificant. A plot can only have one resource, this means if you build a mine on a hill you will never discover a new resource on that plot if it already contains a resource that you just can't see.

All things considered, it's very likely you wouldn't notice any difference at all if they weren't placed... well, aside from all of the black rings that suddenly appear when you open up the world builder

[Seven05]

Originally Posted by Valkrionn

Quiet, you.

You just gave away more than I did, I support three modmods with my mapscript- you, on the other hand...

[Seven05]

Ok, a whole week of peace and quite in the thread. Does that mean I can stick a fork in this script and call it done?

[Valkrionn]

I think so. At this point it would just be minor adjustments.

[dusckr87]

Originally Posted by Seven05

Ok, a whole week of peace and quite in the thread. Does that mean I can stick a fork in this script and call it done?

I've tried it with several games of FFH2041m, FF051c, RiFE123, WM756, and Orbis10b. I've not yet seen any problems that jumped out at me.

[[to_xp]Gekko]

indeed we're having fun with 2.64

the only thing you could possibly add right now imho is an option that increases/decreases the strength of the islandbuster (tm) effect

[Seven05]

Originally Posted by [to_xp]Gekko

indeed we're having fun with 2.64

the only thing you could possibly add right now imho is an option that increases/decreases the strength of the islandbuster (tm) effect

That's good to hear, and I have something to cover islands in the works but I'm not at liberty to discuss that further at this time

[[to_xp]Gekko]

another thing you could change is this:

get rid of limited flavour, use its "doviello/illian start in the north" routine for both full and minimal flavour , and also limit minimal flavour to only change surrounding terrain to grassland.

reasoning for this:

with Full Flavour and NOT using flavourstarts, I got a couple doviello and illian starts near desert/jungle, which is VERY unflavourful. so making sure that they start in the north will prevent them from starting in weird spots.

the "north preference" should become a dislike for the center of the map when playing toroidal maps. and a similar check could be added to other "extreme climate" civs as well, like malakim ( like the middle of the map ) , mazatl ( like the south ) , etc.

the reason for removing most of minimal flavour and only keeping the "improve land" routine is that right now imho it's overdone. changing it would mean it also still works fine with modify/override settings, which would be nice. and your method of changing terrain to grassland softly also looks nice so imho it keeps the flavour intact while adding balance. should definitely be enough

[[to_xp]Gekko]

uh, another thing that could use a tweak imho is the way starting spots are selected. right now you shuffle the list, but as you said that means that when random numbers don't go the way you want to, you can get a less than great distribution.

would it be possible to choose them on roughly opposite sides of the map?

i.e. first spot gets selected in the NW area. second will be SE. third will be SW. fourth will be NE. and so on. not sure how easy it would be, but that should ensure that civs get spaced around more evenly, with less randomness involved.

[julko]

I love this mapscript, currently all my games are played with it. But one little thing disturbs me. I'm not fan of landmass surrounded by ocean entirely, I prefer "inland sea" types of map with no wrap (like Erebus, Wilderebus... mapscripts). Mainly because less space is wasted on water tiles and therefore one can add more civs on smaller map (less MAFs). Is it possible to create such map (inland sea type) under this script?

[Seven05]

Originally Posted by [to_xp]Gekko

uh, another thing that could use a tweak imho is the way starting spots are selected. right now you shuffle the list, but as you said that means that when random numbers don't go the way you want to, you can get a less than great distribution.

would it be possible to choose them on roughly opposite sides of the map?

Actually, since I have code in place for east/west weight just having that value flip from +1 to -1 every other player would be pretty easy. However, that still wouldn't guarantee that every other player would be on opposite sides of the map only that they would be more likely to pick a spot in that area.

Originally Posted by julko

I love this mapscript, currently all my games are played with it. But one little thing disturbs me. I'm not fan of landmass surrounded by ocean entirely, I prefer "inland sea" types of map with no wrap (like Erebus, Wilderebus... mapscripts). Mainly because less space is wasted on water tiles and therefore one can add more civs on smaller map (less MAFs). Is it possible to create such map (inland sea type) under this script?

Unfortunately the climate model doesn't work so well with maps that don't have water on the borders. Well, it works well enough but it takes forever, on my inland sea testing it took almost 15 minutes on a standard sized map.

It's actually pretty easy to get some nice results by simply inverting the heightmap, if I can get a decent climate model in there that cheats enough to not take all day to generate I could do it.

[[to_xp]Gekko]

so, any news on your latest progress?

[Seven05]

It works, I'm just delaying the release to create a false sense of excitement and suspense.

What I have right now is some minor tweaks to the starting rules depending on which of the three settings you're using. At 'Full Flavor' the placement is flavor based with very little concern for balanced starts. At 'Limited Flavor' more weight is placed on balanced starts but it still tries to be flavorful. With 'Minimal Flavor' it has a strong preference for balance with the only flavor rules being those required (or beneficial) based on game mechanics.

So on Limited or Minimal Flavor starting plot order is changed, instead of being purely random the game will place civs with a negative neighbor weight first, then those with a positive weight and finally those with no preference. It will randomly pick east or west before placing the first civ and then flip between east and west as each civ is placed. Since this is a weight it will not force a civs to start on the east or west side of the map, it will only make equal starts on the chosen side more valuable than those on the opposite side. In other words, if all of your desert is on the west side of the map it won't force the Malakim to start on the east side of the map in a grassland area.

Limited Flavor will still not replace tundra and snow with grassland, for that you'll still have to go with minimal flavor. I also do not adjust edge weight based on y-wrap settings since I use that already to keep starts from being too spread out with either limited or minimal flavor.

Since 2.64 is pretty stable I'm spending some extra time testing 2.65 before releasing it.

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sounds pretty good! it could be a good idea to also make it randomly pick north/south for the first civ, seems like it would tend to be more efficent in distributing them around, especially with smaller maps and/or many civs.

awesome to see this script being constantly refined

edit: what do you mean by "to keep starts from being too spread out with either limited or minimal flavor." though? imho starts are never TOO spread out. the more they are, the more optimal the distribution is.