Purporse of Citizens?

[ExtraCrispy]

What use is the citizen specialist? Is just a placeholder for population that is not working? Is there a situation where using citizens is actually better than choosing another specialist or working the tiles?

[Refar]

The only times i end up running them, is if i happen to conquer a poulation rich city... Not having Slots to run something else, nor space to work the land, utill the boarders expand. Even then i prefer to whip away some superfluous folks rather than run citizens.
He makes 1 and nothing else. See for your self, if you can find a worse tile to work...

[Meiz]

But with representation they become super citizens! . Someone should do a succession game with this theme!

[ExtraCrispy]

Na... Na na na! *sings batman theme song*

[ShannonCT]

If there is a circumstance where you need one more hammer to complete a build (like the Oracle) in one turn instead of two, and you don't have any more tiles with hammers, and you don't want to use the whip, then maybe using a citizen makes sense.

[henrebotha]

I actually often end up having to use Citizens to avoid growth (due to happiness) in some of my cities; though one could argue that this points to bad planning on my part (for not securing additional happiness in time). Like Meiz said, though, when you're running Representation, it's not that bad - and similar to how an additional can finish an important building or unit in one turn instead of two, the additional from running Representation-empowered Citizens in a couple of your cities can help you finish an important tech a turn earlier.

[futurehermit]

I've found myself using them more and more in newly-founded cities that do not have even a 1-hammer tile in the first ring and I need an important build sooner rather than later (e.g., monument, workboat). Marginal coastal cities seem to be the best example of this.

[Wodan]

Originally Posted by henrebotha

I actually often end up having to use Citizens to avoid growth (due to happiness) in some of my cities

Why in the world would you want to avoid growth by working a citizen?

[ShannonCT]

Originally Posted by henrebotha

I actually often end up having to use Citizens to avoid growth (due to happiness) in some of my cities; though one could argue that this points to bad planning on my part (for not securing additional happiness in time).

No it's not bad planning. In the early game, your ability to grow the city almost always outstrips your ability to keep every citizen happy. So you can either allow your cities to become unhappy and then whip them (minimum 2 citizens at a time) to complete units/improvements, or you can use some of your population for net-negative-food uses, like mines or scientists.

[Joshua368]

Running citizens to avoid growth sounds like a really poor idea. Crack the whip, build a worker/settler, rearrange your tiles, heck even just grow into unhappiness, sounds like a better deal. (unless you're running representation I guess)

The only time I can think where they may be useful are for one-tile islands with a few seafood resources and absolutely no hammers and you want to get those dang maoi statues built sometime before the game is over, and you aren't in slavery for whatever reason.

[z0wb13]

don't ever use citizens. turn them into hammers (the whip) or troops (nationhood).

the bonus from representation, unless the city has very slow growth, is not enough beakers for the number of hammers you would earn. although, that comparison is like apple and oranges.

you need to improve more tiles, by building more workers, or build more buildings that allow specialists.

and the maoi statues are better suited to a city with some production, so that you can build a strong navy there later. maybe coupled with the heroic epic or west point.

[henrebotha]

Originally Posted by Wodan

Why in the world would you want to avoid growth by working a citizen?

If you're in a particular kind of situation where you can't or won't whip for whatever reason, and/or you need every extra hammer (or beaker, in case of Representation) you can get, and/or there simply isn't a combination of tiles you could work that would yield something while avoiding growth, then you would want to avoid growth by working a citizen.

[mc-red]

mercantilism

[mirthadir]

There are times when there literally is nothing better to do:
1. Building the NP in a tundra forest gives you many specs instantly and if you aren't in caste you have nothing better to do.
2. Sushi pushes your pop up before you have decent slots in filler cities. Normally these are cities where I'm trying hard to get into the number 1 or 2 pop position for UN purposes. For instance a one tile city (say in the gap between to BFCs on a diagonal) may have 8 and 8 from corps. Say I'm in rep due to SSE and eman for happiness/cottages. I will handily outgrow the spec slots I need until I get a courthouse, lib, temple, and a forge.
3. You can't run whip and need hammers ASAP. This is very rare, but if you are locked in eman or serfdom (only ever for diplomatic reasons) and you need get a border pop or shave a turn off a wonder.
4. Food balancing. Particularly if I've skimped on pottery (i.e. block settle with oracle shot to CoL) I sometimes find myself with 1 more than I need for stagnation and optimal output from mines. Rather than go unhappy and promptly lose the new citizen I will toggle a 2 tile to a citizen to start eating down the surplus. Either I'm waiting for a new happy resource to come online before growing or I'm waiting until I can whip the unhappy guy away in a 3 pr 4 pop whip for something big.

Really though, citizens are specs of desperation; running virtually anything else is superior. If you have many of them, you should be considering caste.

[Refar]

Originally Posted by futurehermit

I've found myself using them more and more in newly-founded cities that do not have even a 1-hammer tile in the first ring and I need an important build sooner rather than later (e.g., monument, workboat). Marginal coastal cities seem to be the best example of this.

I was concidering this on occasion... But most of the time a whip seem to make more sense. Unless for some reason you really can't whip...

Originally Posted by mc-red

mercantilism

radiocative monkeys

[carl corey]

Originally Posted by mc-red

mercantilism

And by "mercantilism" you mean "caste system"?

[henrebotha]

Originally Posted by carl corey

And by "mercantilism" you mean "caste system"?

Mercantilism gives you a free specialist in every city, and if you're not in Caste, some of your cities may be forced to use Citizens.

[mirthadir]

Ahh yes mercantilism and SoL also often net you citizens in new cities. Though normally when I gun for those I'm running caste.

[carl corey]

Ah, ok. If I'm ever in Mercantilism I'm usually in Caste System at the same time, so there's place for an extra specialist. Even in a cottage economy, by the time you have reached Banking you most probably won't use the whip, so a change to Caste System is in order. And if I'm in Slavery I assume this is a recently conquered city, in which case I'll whip a courthouse or a theatre. At most that Citizen will be there one turn.

And since I got the talk to Caste System, sometimes it does pay to move specialists/tiles to citizens, when doing so shaves off even a turn of a highly contested wonder. Being in CS instead of Slavery doesn't let you whip the remainder of the wonder, and it's unlikely you'll be in US to buy it. In this kind of situation I move citizens from any non-hammer tiles/specialists, even if it means losing a population point, as the wonder's more important than any benefits given by one more pop/better specialists.

[mc-red]

I guess I stay with the whip too long sometimes.
In reality it is a situation that doesn't last long unless I am founding cities on islands in which case the citizen from merc is useful for the first build of such a city.