Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough 3

[futurehermit]

Ok, welcome to the 3rd and final installment of the Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough. After this I may move to other types of economy walkthroughs, we will see. Settings are the same as the first two games: Monarch/Hemispheres/Standard/Normal/Default.

In our 1st game, we played as Ramesses, showcasing the benefits of Industrious and Spiritual for a warmongering SE.

In our 2nd game, we played as Pericles, showcasing the benefits of Philosophical and Creative for a warmongering SE.

I believe these are the four strongest traits for running a warmongering SE.

Now, in this final installment, we will be playing a leader that has none of these traits. In fact, a leader who has few, if any, economic bonuses at all. Furthermore, from recent best-traits polls, we see that this leader is, apparently, a bottom-of-the-barrel leader in terms of strength--at least as far as the consensus of these boards is concerned.

Our economically-challenged leader:



His UU is the mighty samurai. His UB is the lesser-known shale plant:



The shale plant is actually respectable for transitioning to a hammer economy during the industrial era as I showcased in the Pericles game. Does not require Coal so you can trade away/disable your coal to save on unhealthiness from coal plants at the expense only of the 50% bonus from coal to your IW city. Furthermore, it gives a bonus 10% production, which is nothing to sneeze at. Of course, it also provides power.

And, our starting position:



Just like the first two games, this was the first start I rolled.

A couple of notes on this game:

-Because Toku's economy is downright abysmal, I will entertain the possibility of building cottages in one city. This is common for SEs and often is done in the capital for bureaucracy benefits. Just as the CE has a gpfarm, a SE may have a cottaged-bureaucracy-capital (of course an SE arguably could have a few cottage cities and still be termed an SE, but I digress). So, we'll see how it goes, but I may lay down some cottages in one city to help pay maintenance.

[mystyfly]

Looks like a magnificent start. Most likely a strategic resource 1w of your settler. Let's hope it's not oil...

Tech agri > AH > mining > BW, and start with a WB > worker. If you don't feel save, slot in hunting > archery. Chop away all those forests for cottages (hey, if you allow 'em, use 'em!) into axes or so and crush some heads... Good luck

[futurehermit]

Thanks, that exactly echoes my own line of thinking about this start.

I forgot to mention that I won't be using the protective- -generating-wall-chopping thing-a-ma-jig because I fancy it an exploit, or at least a very specific interpretation of the rules

EDIT: If I end up going for a HR-CS beeline along the way here it may play out that I am going for a CE at the beginning as my research will largely be coming from my bureaucracy capital that has cottages. However, as the game progresses, and I continue to expand horizontally with nothing but farms/mines/workshops/watermills, my empire will become more and more describable as a hybrid SE/HE with a single cottage city for maintenance

EDIT2: But we'll see how the game actually plays itself out first

[TheMeInTeam]

Bah, the PRO wall chopwhip isn't an exploit. It makes it a good trait .

I've never actually done it though, so I'm going to try in this game. Probably not with the capitol though, those chops are going into workers and settlers.

Of course, it will be a cottage/spec/hammer shadow (CSHE).

Edit: I guess my justification of using this game mechanic is that:

If bullets ignore stone walls, vassals capitulate based on esoteric garbage, the interface is programmed to lie to use in 2 separate instances, and random event cheese can hugely impact the game, and all these things are fine in the patches, AND

The wall overflow wasn't taken out...

Then there is absolutely no reason the player shouldn't take advantage. Game can't have it both ways. Either shaka capitulates when I have 3x his power and a 5:1 k/d on him, or I'm going to be using anything that's "exploitative" I possibly can to win more easily.

[futurehermit]

Haha. Yeah, I'm not opposed to people using it. It just seems gimmicky in a I-have-to-micro-manage-too-much-to-use-it kinda way

[TheMeInTeam]

That's the #1 reason I haven't done it yet. You have to time chops baaaah. But! I do want to try it. So I might. Maybe.

[Pangur Bán]

Can someone explain the protective wall trick? I'm afraid I'm not familiar.

[mystyfly]

Here you go...

[futurehermit]

Ok, Round 1 ding ding ding

One thing to understand is that we are not going to be putting any techies to shame in this one. Economic survival is the name of the game. Eeking by just enough so that we can put our military dominance to use, especially in the latter eras where Toku is an absolute monster warmongerer (agg/pro gunpowder units plus his UB).

Alright, with that caveat in mind, let's get to it.

4000BC-I move the warrior south and then settle in place:



Another seafood. Nice capital indeed. Start ag and workboat x2.

3760BC-Pop a scout from a hut. Nice, I love early scouts for the scouting advantage and for more goody huts.

3640-ag done start hunt (I notice furs nearby and it cheapens AH and opens up archery)

3600-Meet our first AI, who happens to be on our doorstep:



I was actually hoping that this game wouldn't involve an early rush, since I had them in both the first two games, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Plus we're aggressive, so sharpening the axes is always a good move, if possible.

So, I switch research to mining.

3320-Mining done, start BW

3080-A nice pop from a hut:



2880-BW and worker both done; adopt slavery (1 turn anarchy). Set research back to hunting. Do we have copper? Oh me, oh my:



Also:



With copper in the capital BFC, a worker in hand, and starting with the wheel, and aggressive for cheap barracks, I just settle down to producing axes and don't bother with an early settler.

2760-pop a warrior from a hut

2680-hunting done, start AH; pop 38 gold from hut; meet our next rival:



Ah, peaceful Hatty. She is tucked in down toward our SE and doesn't have room to expand far and wide, which is good.

2600-pop 47 gold from hut
2400-AH done, start myst. There are horses near Washington and some other patches around, but not near us. I forgot a screenie, but you will see them later.

2360BC-Some shots of the continent:





2160-myst done, start writing
1760-writing done, start polyth
1400-OB Hatty
1360-I don't have a ton of troops, with only one city producing them, but I think I have enough as long as Roosey doesn't have 4+ archers in his capital, so I declare war:



1320-Poly done, start Aesthetics
1280-Sack Washington; and 2 reinforcement axes kill 2 archers and sack Boston:



1040-Sack New York and eliminate the USA:



We will get by on our spoils of war for a bit, but I know that even with only 4 cities, the joys of Toku's lack of economic bonuses are going to hit us hard.

750BC-aesthetics done, start lit
675BC-Meet the last AI on our continent, a familiar face:



The guy is just a pure masochist. It's the only explanation, really. OB with him.

650BC-Misjudged a worker move and lost him to a barb. Blech.

625BC-A shot of Hatty and Gandhi:



They are both Jewish.

525BC-Getting some early scientists going:



475BC-Lit done, start alpha as neither hatty nor gandhi have alpha yet. sigh. A shot of our economy in the toilet:



50BC-Get our 1st GP, a GS. I use him on an academy in the capital for the longterm gains:



1AD-Finish chopping out the GL in Washington:



This will help our struggling econ out. Too bad no marble nearby.

100AD-Finish chopping out the ToA in Kyoto:



A GP or GM will help our economy out at some point. Plus the bonus to trade routes in the capital will pay dividends.

Also, we found Osaka, which can pay for itself thanks to the goldmine:



175-Alpha in (like I said, we're not going to break any techpace records this game!); trade aesthetics to Hatty for IW/Priesthood (Gandhi already has aesthetics; I keep a monopoly on alpha for the time being). Do we have iron?



Yes, we have iron nearby.

Shot of the North:



Shot of the South:



We have a LOT of land to settle, but a very poor economy to support such expansion. So, the key to this game is very careful expansion into our eventually-large empire. And then taking Hatty and Gandhi out with rifles later. They are very soft targets, so I am not worried at all.

The key here is not to tank the economy. There are a couple of well-placed barb cities to our SW, which will save us a couple of settlers. Overall, there is good, rich land to the SW, so I am looking forward to settling it.

Right now I am getting down cottages in the capital to help pay for this expansion. I have also set research to currency. We badly need monarchy and code of laws as well. Sigh. Gandhi has Monarchy. I'm hoping that Hatty will get it soon as wel, so that I can trade them for it. I will likely have to tech CoL myself after Currency is done. At that point, hopefully I will be able to trade for math, bulb philo, and research CS. If we can make it that far without crashing our economy, or it being 1848AD, then I think we should be in good shape.

But, we'll see how it goes...

[TheMeInTeam]

You played this so much better than me already it's not even funny. I went for a double block. I actually won space after not feeling like domination and screwing myself up bigtime for UN.

I DID successfully block both roosy and hatty. I also moved my capitol to an idiot location. The only early war I had was declaring on hatty with 1 axe after she took a barb city with a war chariot in the jungle area, and I got pissed. It had like 1.5 hp so I killed it.

I'll post the summary later. Looking good on your end so far futurehermit.

[futurehermit]

Thanks TMIT Looking forward to your summary.

[Hereditary Rule]

Again, great writeup.

The land looks awesome but the thoughts of massive expansion with your science already down to 30 is scary. No PHI, ORG, FIN - nothing to help out. Even IMP or EXP provide a production boost to the expansion with faster worker/settler/granary production. CRE would get those new cities access to their good tiles faster. PRO/AGG!!!!! (was AGG at least helpful in the rush?)

Generally, even when I know I'm going to cottage my cities, I run some farms and scientists for the early phase of the game to establish some academies and key lightbulbs before finally switching all GPP production to one high food city and then cottaging everything. (Not sure what you call this.. Hybrid? Transition?)

I know you're deliberately going to run a SE here but would cottages from the onset throughout your current cities offer a better science rate at this point in the game?

Looking forward to the next installment.

[futurehermit]

Originally Posted by Hereditary Rule

Again, great writeup.

The land looks awesome but the thoughts of massive expansion with your science already down to 30 is scary. No PHI, ORG, FIN - nothing to help out. Even IMP or EXP provide a production boost to the expansion with faster worker/settler/granary production. CRE would get those new cities access to their good tiles faster. PRO/AGG!!!!! (was AGG at least helpful in the rush?)

Generally, even when I know I'm going to cottage my cities, I run some farms and scientists for the early phase of the game to establish some academies and key lightbulbs before finally switching all GPP production to one high food city and then cottaging everything. (Not sure what you call this.. Hybrid? Transition?)

I know you're deliberately going to run a SE here but would cottages from the onset throughout your current cities offer a better science rate at this point in the game?

Looking forward to the next installment.

Thanks First off, yeah the lack of anything economical in this situation is just sad. But, yes, aggressive was very helpful in the rush. I was able to rush with much fewer units because I was able to go combat1-cover instead of just CR1. So this gave me the ability to have 70% odds against the 2 archers in Boston such that my 2 axes won. Otherwise, I would've had to wait for at least one more axe before I could've hit that city. In that time, he might've whipped another archer, further delaying things. Also, he did whip another archer in the capital. So he had 3 archers vs my 5 axes, 1 spear, and one combat1 (1 promotion waiting) warrior. The cover axes carried the day there as well.

If I was just playing this one out offline, I would be laying down cottages everywhere other than Washington, which would be my gpfarm. And I mean everywhere. The only production necessary would be for units/workers/settlers and that would come largely from my capital and maybe New York as my best other production city (I think it will eventually get the HE). Other than that, I would cottage spam that SW territory especially (the E-SE is insanely food-poor; it will eventually be a production territory post-irrigation and especially post-biology).

But, in this case, with no cottages outside the capital, I will have to be careful up until I get: currency (trade routes/markets), col (CS/courthouses), monarchy (HR), and CS (B/irrigation). The philosophy bulb will also help for pacificism.

This is why I consider the currency/col/monarchy and in some cases /calendar hurdle, which usually comes after the alpha/math/iw and sometimes /aesthetics/lit hurdle, to be the most difficult part of the game--at least at monarch. One "benefit" to higher level games, imo, is that the AI techs fast so you can do a few bulbs (or even just philosophy) and trade it around for all these key economic techs. Of course, there are many other difficulties to offset this "benefit" of the higher levels. I'm just saying that on monarch, you usually have to churn through these techs yourself, which can be difficult, especially with someone like Toku who has nothing going for him economically in the early game.

[Artichoker]

Originally Posted by futurehermit

This is why I consider the currency/col/monarchy and in some cases /calendar hurdle, which usually comes after the alpha/math/iw and sometimes /aesthetics/lit hurdle, to be the most difficult part of the game--at least at monarch. One "benefit" to higher level games, imo, is that the AI techs fast so you can do a few bulbs (or even just philosophy) and trade it around for all these key economic techs. Of course, there are many other difficulties to offset this "benefit" of the higher levels. I'm just saying that on monarch, you usually have to churn through these techs yourself, which can be difficult, especially with someone like Toku who has nothing going for him economically in the early game.

Wouldn't the Music beeline help greatly here (that's my guess)? If the AI techs slower on Monarch than on higher levels, then it means that winning the Music race is even more assured.

[futurehermit]

That's an interesting idea...beeline Music and maybe use the GA on an early GAge to power through some of the economic techs...put the early GAge supporters' theory to the test.

I suspect, however, that for this particular game, given Music's reasonably high beaker cost, that, that would leave me teching a pricy tech for quite awhile while being unable to expand my empire either horizontally or vertically. I'm not sure the benefit is worth the cost in this case.

Once I get currency/col done this will help a lot with being able to expand my empire horizontally. Along the way I am hoping to be able to trade for monarchy, which will help me expand my empire vertically. Bulbing philo will allow a swap into caste/pac to get the great person generation machine rolling.

[UWHabs]

Wouldn't it make more sense to make Kyoto your GP farm, move the capital to Washington, and cottage that up? With 4 food resources, Kyoto looks like a great GP farm. And with all Washington's grassland squares, with the river, that looks like much more of a cottage/bureaucracy capital to me.

[futurehermit]

Yes, I considered that, but I figured it doesn't really matter anyway. I would have to build a fairly pricy palace, which I don't think I need to do. Both cities have the tiles to go in either direction imo. Don't knock Kyoto as a strong bureaucracy capital. The high food surplus will allow it to grow to its maximum health cap asap and it can still support I think 9 cottages in addition to some insane production, plus the commerce along the coast, better trade routes (with ToA, coastal), and I am thinking of putting the Moai there as well.

However, I will only need the cottages really to support my economy until around the time that nationhood becomes available. At that point my economy should be past the life-support stage and I can swap into nationhood full time. At that point, I plan to simply farm over the mature cottages and turn Kyoto into a typical specialist-in-peacetime and draft/whip-center-in-wartime city.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

The long term gains of the Academy in Kyoto on turn 113 as opposed to the an academy in Washington on turn 115 are not clear to me.

What was the troop total? 4 agressive promotable axes to washington, and two more to Boston?

[futurehermit]

Yeah, the academy could've gone in either city I suppose. Washington will run more specialists, especially in the early going, but Kyoto will have the improved traderoutes plus will hit a very large size population-wise post-HR. Plus, it will get bureaucracy. Of course, I may not be able to run the science slider very high, so we'll see.

I was thinking today that what I really regret not doing is settling the 1st GS. I could really use those pure 6 per turn right now.

When I attacked the US, I had a stack aimed at Washington that consisted of 5 axes, 1 spear, and 1 warrior. 2 reinforcement axes were right near Boston. The remnants of the first stack then headed to New York, I think joined by at least one axe from the Boston stack and maybe 1 new reinforcement axe. At any rate, I was able to get by with a very small army, which was nice.

[TheMeInTeam]

1950 AD Space Win

Spoiler:

Settled in place. Max REX practice:



I declare on her and take it. I kill a couple units and she buys peace with monotheism.







Barbs are BS







And tech



I kick in with cottage spam, workshop out some cavalry, and wipe hatty out:



Gandhi offers his services:



America gets rifles, but I get spies.



I look at domination and it seems like a lot of effort. I opt for space, but gandhi goes culture. Let's deal with this:





And then space: