Embassy SANCTA - discussion

[HUSch]

They can see the techs of Kaz or Cav, but can't ours.

[DaveShack]

I think instead of disheveled (clothes/appearance in disarray) you meant disheartened (is that the right spelling?), but it's fine either way. Actually funnier the way it is...

Sometimes the best way to lie is to tell just the right amount of truth.

[peter grimes]

I've made a minor edit (incorporating Dave's comment ). Sending now....

Spoiler for Greetings and Salutations!:

Greetings and Salutations, Honorable Ninjas!

We are simply thrilled to meet you - your reputation has already spread far and wide through this woodsy, hilly, mountainous land. We've been wandering for a very long time, indeed! Aristotle was starting to be somewhat disheveled & disheartened by the lack of human contact!

Our warrior poses no threat to your people at all, and we're anxious to sign a formal peace treaty with you. Something that takes us up through, say, 1AD?

We're also excited by the possibility of future tech trades, but resources are less likely any time soon, unless you have already commissioned a sea-faring cartographic expedition. Alas, we won't have Alphabet for the foreseeable future - how about yourselves?

Let us know about a formal peace treaty - once that's in place we can move forward from there.

All the best,
Peter Grimes, Mad Scientist

Edit: Sent to General_W's gmail.

[topas]

I think Memphus sent their Team-eMail in one of his first messages.

[HUSch]

Yes, is posted here in the embassy.
But G_W sent his message also as PM to us, and I think, he is their diplomat.

[peter grimes]

I'll send messages to both in the future... the letter from SANCTA was sent from General_W private email, so that's where our response went when I clicked 'reply'.

[peter grimes]

Message in from SANCTA, complete with a peace treaty:

Namaste Peter Grimes,
The Ninjas salute the brilliant Mad Scientists.

We have much to speak with you about! Events are proceeding rapidly on this world, and the ninja have sensed a loyal and trustworthy spirit in our Mad (in a good way!) Scientist friends.

The ninja wise men, by studying the intricate patterns formed by tea leaves cast upon steaming hot jade water (or at least, that’s how they explained it to me), have discovered compelling evidence that the nations of Kazakhstan and Cavaleiros are trading heavily. They both have knowledge of Alphabet, Monarchy, and Iron Working. To make matters worse, the Kazakh’s just learned Code of Laws.

Ourselves, we are nearly done with our studies of sailing, but we still lack writing and aren’t sure how soon we can get Alphabet. In the face of this building technological juggernaut – we think it’s time for us to cement our friendship in peace, and rapidly begin to build a tech alliance of our own. At the least, we should coordinate techs to not duplicate efforts and fall further and further behind the Cav-Kazak partnership of doom.

We are attaching a peace treaty for signing – based on your last letter to us – and are very eager to hear back from you on building a larger alliance on this foundation to keep us both away from the dustbin of history. We feel we should try to lock something down now, rather than waiting for Alphabet when it may be too late.

Faithfully yours,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA

Desperate times call
The Mighty to greatness new
Daybreak of friendship

[topas]

I think this is turning out good for us right now...

As I suspected earlier, they noticed the alliance between Kaz and Cav but not that we are fully involved in it...
I think we should agree to the proposed peace-treaty and ask for their ideas concerning an alliance (as they brought the idea up). It could be interesting to know about their ideas...
We can be the "spy" in our actual alliance with the best relations to SAN.

(Further: We should also keep in mind, that one team in a triple alliance is always the ne too much in the long run... Kaz and Cav seem to have the much better (and longer) relations to eachother, which might end up in them turning against us at aproper time in the (far) future.
Concerning the lay of the lands and the empires SAN would be a much better allied team for us strategically. (I'm not proposing changing our diplomatic course, but we should be aware of the geostrategical situation...))

[HUSch]

It's nice they 've sailing in near future, should we slow down our research, then we get some for free?


We can't make a long unterstanding-treaty with them, but a NAP/peace til 1 AD is good, or is this in opposition to our ally-pact?

[topas]

I don't think it's a problem to sign a peace treaty.
But we would need the ok of our allies to do any trade with SANCTA...

... slowing down our sailing research might be a good idea, but we should discuss this in the turn-discussion.

[peter grimes]

no, it's not a problem to sign a peace treaty. But any trades need to be approved by the other members.

This is, as topas said, going really well for us. Let's see how long we can keep our alliance secret!... I suggest we sign the treaty as-is. Any objections?

Also, we'll need to develop a Seal. I'll see if I can come up with something.....

[HUSch]

I get this pm, because Ari is near their worker.

Originally Posted by Memphus

I responded

We will have an axeman on our worker next turn

There is more map info for you in the game

Memphus.

[peter grimes]

General_W wrote to me requesting a chat session. If anyone would like to come along, please do!

it's going to be on gmail. My contact is peter dot smith dot grimes.

Things to keep in mind:
- Dodge questions about our relationship with CAV.
- Confirm that we have not met KAZ.
- Do give up some map info, as long as we get some in return. They have already been very open with us.
- Discuss the possibility of tech trades, without committing to anything

I still haven't come up with any ideas for the seal - work just keep being a lot more busy than I prefer

[peter grimes]

Methos sent me a PM with the text of the letters they've received from SANCTA. Here they are:

Spoiler:

Namaste, Methos The Ninjas salute the mighty Cavaleiros. We are most pleased to have met your people and to be beginning a new relationship. Based on your expressed desire for Open Borders and to secure safe passage for your brave vessel through our waterways and on to whatever mysteries the west holds… we wish to offer you two paths. You may follow either one with the blessing of the SAN.

The Way of Twilight: We agree that you'll declare war – and thus pass through the borders of the Inner Sanctum – with the eternal Shogun's personal guarantee of safety for your vessel. Then, as soon as your boat is past our borders, we will sign a peace deal and continue negotiations of friendship. The Way of Daylight: We agree to an Open Borders deal AND a trade of knowledge. Along with the lopsided benefit you'll receive from Open Borders (map knowledge, potential new contacts, trade routes when you learn Sailing), we will also offer you Metal Casting (or some other mutually agreeable technology to be determined) at a 100 beaker trade value discount in a trade that will be executed some time after turn 90 - in exchange for the secret of writing given to us at the same time we sign Open Borders.

What say you? We eagerly await your reply. General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA. An old silent sea… A letter dispatched abroad, Diplomacy starts.

They chose the phony war, or Way of Twilight.

The next:

Spoiler:

Nemaste Methos, The Ninjas salute the wise and mighty Cavaleiros. We know we sent you another letter just yesterday, but in the light of recent events, we have come to realize that there might be an even more glorious path for us to walk with each other. We believe you’ll find this new proposal both generous and helpful. We’re calling this new deal… The Path of Daytime Home Shopping

We agree to an Open Borders deal and a trade of knowledge. Along with your lopsided benefit from Open Borders, we also offer Sailing, Masonry, Monotheism, and Hunting (506 ) – and we’ll trade these with you for just one easy payments of Alphabet (448 )! We’d exchange technology with you as follows:

1. Open borders right now.
   
   2. Masonry & Sailing gifted to you immediately upon discovery (sailing is almost done)
   
   3. Monotheism traded for Alphabet once we have writing. (and Monotheism, obviously)
   
   4. Hunting for free – whenever you decide you’d like it!

But you must act fast! All technologies are individually hand crafted and come with a beautiful certificate of authenticity. Unfortunately this is a limited time offer.

We hope you find this deal greatly beneficial and we eagerly await your reply. General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA Religion, useful To the faithful and wise ones Friendship beckons forth

[DaveShack]

I'm confused -- wouldn't Metho's messages go in the cav thread?

in-game from 1889 of SANCTA

OK cool. As you can see my team is a little nervous...a little overkill on the axemen i think.
but the barbs are crazy so glad we have them!
FYI CAv & Kaz seem to be tech exploiting. G_W will talk to you guys mroe about it, but we may want
to look at tech exclusivity and get saturn involved.

Tried to Reply: Message received... btw it can be risky to use the in-game screen for diplomacy as the
message may disappear without being seen by the other team. -- don't know if it took...

[peter grimes]

Sorry - I posted the letters from SANCTA to CAV here because I thought it pertained more here. But the post can be moved if so desired

[peter grimes]

Tried to Reply: Message received... btw it can be risky to use the in-game screen for diplomacy as the
message may disappear without being seen by the other team. -- don't know if it took...

I think it may be smart for us to make an official announcement in the UN that Mad Scientists will not conduct communications using the in-game diplo screen, since there are too many chances for error. That way the various turn-players will refrain from sending potentially important messages in such a risky way.

Thoughts?

[HUSch]

The in-game mesage is good for moving details, (warrior at 36 or our worker has no defence, please 1 tile from him), any treaty offers shouldn't post there.

[peter grimes]

General_W just sent me an email (privately). He states clearly that this is not an official statement from his team, but it's worth noting that he lays out SANCTA's position none-the-less.

I'll be busy at work again today, so I don't imagine I'll have a solid amount of time for a chat, but I will certainly have to be on my toes once I do have time

Spoiler for letter:

Peter,

I keep trying to grab you on Google chat, and you keep going inactive or offline after I say hi!
I'm giving up and am going to try e-mail. :-)

We haven't heard back from your team on the peace treaty - are you discussing it? Is there some problem with the proposal?

I'd like to talk with you before you make any deals with the Cavalerios... we think they're playing a really aggressive diplomacy game, and you should be aware that we have (we believe) solid evidence to back up a Kazack-Cavalerios alliance. We think they're working on getting to Civil Service together, and we're worried they're going to try to dupe you into helping them (as a very junior partner) while trying to isolate us.

We think this is a pretty obviously bad scenario for both our teams... and we'd really like to cement close cooperation with you team. I'd really like to explore this idea more with you - but obviously we're having a hard time connecting.

This isn't a formal letter approved by my team - just an attempt by me to try to touch bases and find out what's up.

When you get a chance to talk, let me know!

Thanks,
Josh

And the letter I sent in response:

Spoiler:

Hi Josh,
Yeah, sorry about that. I'm pretty busy these days, sadly. My boss's wife is due any day now, so he's all in a flutter about wrapping up loose ends before he's gone for a while. So as soon as something comes into his head, the rest of us have to drop everything and listen attentively. I'm sure you understand! Even though it appears that I'm online all the time, most of the time I'm in the shop or in one of the theatres, holding his hand, telling him it's going to be OK

We aren't still discussing the Treaty - we've already decided to sign it. In fact, most of us had already chimed in within the first day, but since I've been sparse on the Forums, the delay is my fault. The rest of the team has been waiting for me on this, and I still haven't even come up with a seal!... but consider this our official acceptance of the treaty. Signed copy will follow this weekend at the latest

Regarding Cavalerios: we have some suspicions of our own... btw - did you guys attack one of their explorers?

-Pete

[peter grimes]

Formal letter from SANCTA:

Spoiler:

Namaste Peter.
The Ninjas salute all the Mad Scientists.

Since Ninja General_W (who does not speak about himself in the third person), has continually failed to catch up with Peter Grimes – we decided the time had come to just write a formal letter.

A Glorious Era of Peace

First – let us extend our thanks for the new peace treaty. We salute you as friends and look with great optimism towards the future of our two peoples. We still haven’t seen that officially signed version… so we’ve taken the liberty of drafting a seal you may want to use. If you like it – it’s yours royalty free! We can even send you higher resolution versions if you’d like. The Ninjas are a formal people, and we put great stock in proper ceremony… so we humbly request that you please attach this seal (or one of your own devising) and return the treaty at your earliest convenience.

The Others

Peter asked about the ones called “Cavaleiros” – and if we had attacked one of their explorers. We have done no such thing. To the contrary, we have tried several approaches to build a friendly relationship with them, and been continually rebuffed. Rather than work with us – they opted to declare war and move through our territory that way. While there have been no “real” hostilities yet, things aren’t exactly friendly.

But beyond any petty squabbles over workboats and exploring – our wisemen (those who watch the tea leaves for hints about the goings-on in strange lands) have observed a series of trades and behaviors between the Cavalerios and the Kazakhs. We’ve mentioned this before, and don’t want to belabor the point… we just want to emphasize our belief that we have a natural opportunity to cement an alliance to counter-balance an emerging technology powerhouse. Togeather, they're going to be very powerful, as just this turn - we observed the Kazak economy soar past the 100 GNP mark (must have built an academy?). We also have some concern that the Cav-Kaz alliance may try to trick you into helping them in their push for Civil Service. We just want you to be aware that anything you help them with will almost certainly flow to the other team. (example: we believe you traded Iron Working to the Cavaleiros, who then turned around and immediately gave it to the Kazaks. Unless we misread your involvement there?)

The Big Idea

So here’s what we’re thinking – we haven’t fully formulated this yet (hence our desire to chat more informally… but oh well) – but we want to get this out on the table so we can start talking business. We’d like a tech alliance with you. We’re willing to beeline straight to alphabet (and indeed, we’ve started working on writing already). We’re willing to trade you writing, alphabet, Metal Casting, etc… the whole of Ninja knowledge. In exchange we’d like any knowledge you have that we lack – and to form a tech-trading embargo against the Cav-Kaz alliance. Hopefully – one of us will find Saturn soon, and we could bring them in on this deal so that we don’t end up on the wrong side of a 3v2 world.

Obviously this is just a starting point. We very much would like to hear what you think about such an idea and how we can best make it work for you.

Looking forward to hearing back from you soon.

Your friends,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA

Peace is now certain
But threatening clouds gather
Join hands for success.


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