Why ask AI to change civic?

C4 is not like previous incarnations of Civ where you ask/demand of another civ that they change their government because you know that for them to do so will put them at a disadvantage (ie: asking a Democracy to switch back to Monarchy) so, therefore, what's the use of asking an AI to switch in C4?

Is it because if we can get a civ to change to our civilization's favorite civic then we'll get the diplo bonus for dealing with that civ?

If so, then is that the only advantage to us? I've wondered for years why I'd want to ask a civ to change his civic. If it's not to somehow curtail him, then why bother?

Well, firstly, it can improve relations.

Secondly, it can be to your benefit. For instance, you may wish a civ to change from Mercantilism to Free Market, or from OR to Free Religion, or even Emancipation to Caste System, as these things may benefit you.

Also, you could force a civ to do something that is disadvantageous for them. For instance, if you are in police state, and another civ is in Representation, it may be disadvantageous for them to change to Police State, which you may be able to force (or ask kindly) out of them.

Also, if they're not Spiritual it will cost them at least a turn of anarchy to make the change, that can hurt their economy. Then after maybe 20 turns they usually change back to the old civic, so that's another turn of anarchy. In the meantime they can have lost diplomatic relations with one group of AI and gained with another (maybe including you). That can have a huge impact on the game. It might allow you to make some trades that would not be possible otherwise, you might be able to attack someone and not get a diplomatic malus (since they're now cautious with them now) and so on ...

Incidentally, changing religions can be just as good a tool to manipulate the diplomatic scene. You can force a civic or religious changes using espionage and I often use either gold or EPs to produce the change, sometimes a combination of both.

OK-so we human players get a diplo bonus with any AI that agrees to change to our civilization's fave civic?

Orup The Great said:

If it's not to somehow curtail him, then why bother?

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I had one game where having a civ switch civics allowed me to win. I was very close to winning a spce race victory when I noticed that one of my vassals, Darius, was getting very close to a cultural victory. He had 2 of the 3 required cities already and was well on the way to his third and final one. I calculated that at the rate he was developing his culture, he would have won just a couple of turns before I did. So I convinced him to switch civics, which put him into Anarchy long enough to delay his cultural win so that I could get the space race one.

Orup The Great said:

OK-so we human players get a diplo bonus with any AI that agrees to change to our civilization's fave civic?

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No, it's the other way around. Our favourite civic is irrelevant, the bonus only kicks in if both you and the other civ are using their favourite civic.

UncleJJ said:

Also, if they're not Spiritual it will cost them at least a turn of anarchy to make the change, that can hurt their economy. Then after maybe 20 turns they usually change back to the old civic, so that's another turn of anarchy.

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This is the most immediate effect - and with some espionage, you can use that to decide some races for you, like getting liberalism, a religion, and the other techs that give the first discoverer some bonus. At least I tend to do that all the time to my allies...

Cheers, LT.

And just to add some practical advice to what Willem said, it's worth noting which leaders in your game have relatively early favorite civics like Hereditary Rule and Caste System, since getting off on the right foot is important in diplomacy. By the time you switch to another civic, you'll probably have other bonuses from open borders and trades that you might not have had otherwise, especially if you're different religions. Leaders with later-game favorite civics may be harder to deal with because it's tougher to keep them happy early on.