New Civ Concept

[Thuellai]

Now the Luchiurp+ project, looking for help. Design objectives (updated as new ideas come to me/are discussed in the thread):

Putting the focus on the golems. Even though it mostly already is, they should be able to outstrip the dwarven units.

Finding some way to add promotions to Golems since they don't gain XP, through use of their Hero (who already Empowers them) and possibly by either buildings or some way of buying promotions for your Golems with gold. (possibly both - build the building and then pay for the upgrade, Master Smith style, in which case the upgrade would be cheaper than if you can just buy upgrades without buildings)

Creating more arcane synergy with the Golems - Repair is a nice start, but mages at the back of the Golems should represent a serious threat.

A general focus on frontlining Golems and a gradual expanse of Golems as a main force - Where other forces might constantly tech up into new units, I'd like this civ to have fewer, but more customizable units - where others would get completely new units, they'd get bigger and nastier promotions and more ways to turn the units they do have into powerhouses.

Slower advancement through the tiers, but more powerful units - Thanks to promotions being buyable/acquired from buildings, their T1 will be more formidable than other T1s, and likewise for T2 and T3 - so their actual moving up the tiers will be slightly slower, but balanced by the fact that in the meantime, they're acquiring upgrades for their current units that even the odds.

De-emphasizing growth and making them a big hammer/gold rush civ - Hammers for high production (Perhaps even slightly more effective mines with one extra hammer to represent tireless golem workers) and gold to be used to tech up and buy upgrades.

(Possibly) Allow low-level Golems to be summoned onto the field by Adepts for a gold cost, with the type of Golem dependent on the square the Adept is standing on - Wood Golems in forests, Rock Golems on hills, Mud Golems on plains, etc. Even more theoretically, a "Golem Workshop" improvement that constructs a Golem every so often, again dependent on the tile it's built on.

[WarKirby]

Personally, I'd advise overhauling luchuirp a bit, instead of making a whole new civ. They're already quite similar to how you describe, but the upgrade mechanic is a barely explored concept as they are now.

Always better to improve an existing race, than add another, I'd say. But it's up to you.

[civ_king]

Originally Posted by Thuellai

Essentially I'm designing a civ at least concept-wise (and later fancy-XML-and-python-wise). The core concept is something close to the group that focuses on Golems, but with a generally more magical feel and an emphasis on artificially created units: Homunculi, golems, and robots of all kinds. Since many of their units are artificial, I'm thinking UBs would focus on increasing production and providing free promotions (representing "upgrades" to the process or the unit itself). Highly customizable armies (considering allowing them to somehow reset promotions, if there's a way to do so, or just buy promotions with enough gold), an arcane/steampunk flavor, possibly Fallow given they're running mostly mechanical units. If possible, I might even tie population into hammers somehow. (one concept I had was a building that would increase city growth if you had the proper resources - namely various metals, stone, and such). Any ideas/willing helpers/further questions?

• growth, take the build wealth, duplicate it and then tweak it to be growth instead,
• eliminate unhappy/unhealthy
• have animals give extra production (bones/ligaments/)
• mega boost mines (because the workers never tire)
• have a very basic unit, (a frame) with 1 strength, but you can make pieces like a head, arms, legs, weapons,

[Thuellai]

I've been considering that too. A sort of Luchuirp+ to go alongside the two previous upgraded civs. It certainly would be easier and probably more effective overall. So, first things first, I suppose the primary things would be:

Putting the focus on the golems. Even though it mostly already is, they should be able to outstrip the dwarven units.

Finding some way to add promotions to Golems since they don't gain XP, through use of their Hero (who already Empowers them) and possibly by either buildings or some way of buying promotions for your Golems with gold. (possibly both - build the building and then pay for the upgrade, Master Smith style, in which case the upgrade would be cheaper than if you can just buy upgrades without buildings)

Creating more arcane synergy with the Golems - Repair is a nice start, but mages at the back of the Golems should represent a serious threat.

A general focus on frontlining Golems and a gradual expanse of Golems as a main force - Where other forces might constantly tech up into new units, I'd like this civ to have fewer, but more customizable units - where others would get completely new units, they'd get bigger and nastier promotions and more ways to turn the units they do have into powerhouses.

Slower advancement through the tiers, but more powerful units - Thanks to promotions being buyable/acquired from buildings, their T1 will be more formidable than other T1s, and likewise for T2 and T3 - so their actual moving up the tiers will be slightly slower, but balanced by the fact that in the meantime, they're acquiring upgrades for their current units that even the odds.

De-emphasizing growth and making them a big hammer/gold rush civ - Hammers for high production (Perhaps even slightly more effective mines with one extra hammer to represent tireless golem workers) and gold to be used to tech up and buy upgrades.

[WarKirby]

Originally Posted by Thuellai

Finding some way to add promotions to Golems since they don't gain XP, through use of their Hero (who already Empowers them) and possibly by either buildings or some way of buying promotions for your Golems with gold. (possibly both - build the building and then pay for the upgrade, Master Smith style, in which case the upgrade would be cheaper than if you can just buy upgrades without buildings)

For this, autoaqquire promotions would be good. prereqbuildingincity, I think. Would give a golem an automatic upgrade when it enters a city with the right building. Or you could require a gold cost to be paid for each upgrade, similar to master equipment.

Personally, rather than an "Iron Golem", I'd rather see a "Metal Golem", with either "Bronze Body" "Iron Body" or "Mythril Body" appropriately, depending on what you have access to. just a random thought.

[deadliver]

Originally Posted by WarKirby

Personally, I'd advise overhauling luchuirp a bit...

Heh heh I was going to say the same thing when I first saw this thread!

The Luchuirp heavily rely on golems etc already, there is also a thread in the main forum regarding what ideas could be used to upgrade the various golems. But as was mentioned before, this your baby yo. It may be easier for you to make a second civ using the Luchuirp as a template (units for example).

Are there any living units in the civ?

[Thuellai]

I'm thinking I'll probably make this a Luchuirp+ sort of thing, in which case I would like some help in general because I'm not always clear on how exactly certain things work (my modding previous to this has mostly been XML tweaks). Also, I like the idea of Metal Golems that get upgrades for Bronze/Iron/Mythril the way other units can use weapons of each type.

[WarKirby]

There's an XML tag which allows the unit's artdefine to be changed with a promotion. Ghostwalkers use it.

It could be applied to golems, so that they visibly change when their base metal is changed. There's already an iron golem, and I could do retextures for bronze and mythril, I reckon. wouldn't be hard

[Thuellai]

That'd be fairly awesome. I think it would add a lot to the flavor of the units if they visually change over promotions, especially given that the primary military trick of the Luchiurp is going to be turning Golems into super-promoted madness.

Also, we should have some unique promotions for the Golems, since it's their primary military focus. Any ideas for promotions that work especially well for golems (stuff that makes sense for artificial units especially). Personally I think one possibility would be adding a Cargo Space promotion - nothing quite like a Mythril Golem suddenly dropping a Repair Adept behind him and then picking him back up when Assassins show up.

[WarKirby]

Originally Posted by Thuellai

That'd be fairly awesome. I think it would add a lot to the flavor of the units if they visually change over promotions, especially given that the primary military trick of the Luchiurp is going to be turning Golems into super-promoted madness.

A word of caution, there is a limit to the system there.

A unit's art can only be changed entirely. So either most promotions would have to be non visual, or it would take a LOT of work. Basically, a unique model for every possible combination of visible promotions. If it's limited to only the metal bodies, that number is 3. Quite easy. But if you add extra arms, armour plating, or other visible things, the quantity of work grows exponentially.

Sadly, I don't think Civ IV has any kind of support for systematically changing only parts of a model

[Thuellai]

Yeah, I suspected as much. I think maybe only one or two visual upgrades for each variety - the Metal Golems, as the mainstay force, would have the three bodies. Then there might be one big, noticeable, visual promotion for Nullstone, Clockwork, etc. Wood Golems probably wouldn't have a variant model because they're so early in tech that the number of upgrades then would be limited.

[deadliver]

A ranged attack golem would be cool.

[Thuellai]

Clockwork Golem w/Cannon. Come on! It'd be AWESOME. The only question is, chest cannon or shoulder-mounted?

[WarKirby]

I'd say Chest Cannon personally. Though Shoulder Mounted might be easier

although I'm not sure how the art for that would work. always something to learn

[Thuellai]

Some sort of clockwork-looking barrel I suppose, mounted in classic giant robot style. Classic Shoulder-mounted Cannon. For a chest cannon you'd actually need even less - just an open spot in the middle, maybe with some detail, flourish, and if you wanna get real fancy visible gears.

[Vermicious Knid]

Anyone ever read Iron Council?


One of the main characters in that was a golem maker...but he could make temporary golems on the fly using whatever materials were available. In FF it would work like a summons spell, basically. You could set terrain-based requirements for a line of summon spells. Bone golem cast on a graveyard, Rock golem cast on a hill, etc.... You could have another line of promotions representing advanced golem-making techniques allowing flying golems, magic-immune golems, etc...


...and now I want to see art for a cow golem. Summon Cow Golem, castable only on a pasture, produces a mooing abomination formed of a pile of innocent cows.

[civ_king]

Originally Posted by Thuellai

I'm thinking I'll probably make this a Luchuirp+ sort of thing, in which case I would like some help in general because I'm not always clear on how exactly certain things work (my modding previous to this has mostly been XML tweaks). Also, I like the idea of Metal Golems that get upgrades for Bronze/Iron/Mythril the way other units can use weapons of each type.

**** no, completely against lore

[Thuellai]

Originally Posted by civ_king

**** no, completely against lore

Explain? They clearly have some interaction with Mythril, given one of the Golems is only available AFTER Mythril Weapons tech. What's so terrible about Mythril Golems as an analogue for others having Mythril Weapons? I assume you're considering the Mythril Golem hero, but, well... he's a Hero. If all else fails, we rename him Mythril Titan to differentiate him.

[Thuellai]

Originally Posted by Vermicious Knid

Anyone ever read Iron Council?


One of the main characters in that was a golem maker...but he could make temporary golems on the fly using whatever materials were available. In FF it would work like a summons spell, basically. You could set terrain-based requirements for a line of summon spells. Bone golem cast on a graveyard, Rock golem cast on a hill, etc.... You could have another line of promotions representing advanced golem-making techniques allowing flying golems, magic-immune golems, etc...


...and now I want to see art for a cow golem. Summon Cow Golem, castable only on a pasture, produces a mooing abomination formed of a pile of innocent cows.

Barring the extremely disturbing image of a Cow Golem, being able to summon Golems (who could then be upgraded at cities) is actually a good idea and could create nasty Golem/Adept/Golem synergies, where a Golem with promotions to aid Adepts helps that Adept summon more Golems until you have a stupid-awesome army of doom.

[ICanHasName?]

MEAT GOLEM!!!

I'm sure we could think of fun mechanics for that (yes I know thats backwards game design but still...)