Sengir02 - The long view on cottage cheese

[Whosit]

OK, I knew I was up somewhere. It has been a hectic day. I'll try to squeeze in my set in the next couple of hours.

I will mine the iron. Make sure we have 5-6 workers. Get some axes and settlers, and head south to block off the English, leaving the frigid north to our "friendly" Aztec "neighbors."

[Whosit]

Cottages an' More

Inherited Turn 209, 535 AD

I'm kind of amazed that we're still alive.

Amsterdam is working on another Warrior. Once the iron mine is finished, it can probably spit out another worker if it works the bananas. The Hague is on a worker, too. With 5 workers, we can probably manage our current terrain and whatever we expand to in the short-term. All that jungle means lots of worker actions.

6 turns to Utrecht's border expansion.

-End Turn-

Turn 210, 550 AD

Will start on The Hague's bananas at an aching 15 turns.

-End Turn-

Turn 211, 565 AD

Iron mine is finished.

I am assuming that research is at 0% so we can try to upgrade a warrior or two, so I'll leave it at that.

-End Turn-

Turn 212, 570 AD

Our researches experience a setback on their efforts to create a compas and we lose 71 beakers. Wow. Our researchers must be special to experience a setback when they're not even working on it.


I start a road to the iron before I realize we get it 'cuz it's on the river. D'oh. Oh well. The warrior build becomes a spearman, due in 5 turns.

I upgrade a woodsman II warrior into an Axeman. Upgrades cost 110 gold. I will wait three turns to make another upgrade, then resume research.

-End Turn-

Turn 213, 595 AD

I move the Woodsman II axeman onto the jungle hill next to Minoan. Seems a better spot for him.

-End Turn-

Turn 214, 610 AD

Monty has currency because I am alerted that he has money to trade. When we have the second banana, we will trade it to Monty for a bit of gpt. Maybe get some trade diplo, too.

-End Turn-

Turn 215, 625 AD

Utrecht's borders have expanded! We have 75% culture in the barb cities now. Hopefully they will flip sooner rather than later.


I upgrade the Woody I warrior in Utrecht into an Axeman for self defense, then restore research. Compass in 14 turns at a break-even pace.

-End Turn-

Turn 216, 640 AD

The people of Burgundian have realized the errors of their way, and throw in their lot with the "mighty" Dutch. Start a 45-turn workboat. The town comes with a swordsman, so hopefully that'll be enough to dissuade random barbarian attacks.


Drop research due to the new maintenance.

-End Turn-

Amsterdam: Spearman < Worker (13 turns); the iron mine helps. The Bananas only cut off 4 turns, and is not worth the financial hit from losing a cottage.

The Hindu Holy Shrine has been created.

Bananas in a couple turns. Whee.

-End Turn-

Turn 218, 670 AD

Minoan is ours! More maintenance! Whoo! It doesn't come with any soldiers, though, for some reason. Maybe because it wasn't hooked up to a trade network and couldn't actually build anything? Dunno. Gonna move troops from Utrecht to Minoan, and send Dumples out to fogbust south. Why Dumples? I'm tired, hungry, and sort of confused. What can I say.


Just noticed that the Ottomans set up shop to our north. Oh well. I'm going to move our northern fogbusters back a bit since we seem to have given up on northern expansion. Let the Ottomans and Aztec deal with any barbarians.


We have Bananas in The Hague! I want to ask our bestest pal Monty if he wants any. He does, and he's willing to give us Wine. He has a lot of health resources available, but I think we want some Happy resources at the moment. We can always renegotiate for cows or something later, when we can hook up our own wine.

Well, time to connect our dyes. We should do both, for more trading opportunities.

Turn 219, 685 AD

Monty has a Jewish Missionary travelling through our lands. Odd. Did he build the shrine?

Plantations for The Hague's dye and Utrecht's Bananas.

-End Turn-

Turn 220, 700 AD

Judaism spread in The Hague. Thanks Monty . . . .

Yeah, looking back through the log, Montezuma made the Temple of Solomon.

-End Turn-

Turn 222, 730 AD

Hasn't been much to report . . . .

-End Turn-

Turn 223, 745 AD

News! A "Chinese" workboat sails into view and reports indicate that these people are led by a man called Qin Shi Huang. He is the founder of Confucianism, appropriately enough. I Open Borders with the Chinese because no one appears to hate them at the moment.


Lot's of dangerous people out there.

-End Turn-

Turn 224, 760 AD

Churchill asks for Open Borders, but since the bloke is #1 on Monty's hit list, I decline.

-End Turn-

Turn 225, 775 AD

One dye by The Hague has been connected. Will consider renegotiating a trade with Monty soon, if we have enough happiness. But, I guess we can always use more Happiness.

-End Turn-

Turn 227, 805

Another Ottoman city is founded. Churchill demands we cancel trade with Aztec. Nope. To top it off, we get a negative event with the Ottomans because there was a Buddhist wedding between nobles from our respective civilizations. And jungle grows near Minoan.

The Hague: Worker < Granary (90 turns); oy.

New worker will help make a dye plantation out of Utrecht's jungle.

I have The Hague work the dye plantation instead of the Bananas so that we can complete Compass before we run out of money.

-End Turn-

Turn 228, 820 AD

We get more Judaism, but at least now Monty is sending a couple of Buddhist Missionaries.

Cancel Bananas for Wine. Give Montezuma Bananas for 6 gpt. Put The Hague back on the fast-track to growth.

-End Turn-

Turn 229, 835 AD

War surely looms between us and the Ottomans. We get another -1 diplomatic penalty due to another wedding feud. This time because a groom from our empire walked out on his Ottoman bride. Yeesh.

Find signs of a Barbarian city down south, about where our airstrip ends.

-End Turn-

Turn 230, 850 AD

Amsterdam: Worker < Axeman (9 turns); I also switch from a Village to the Bananas to grow the city to the new Happy Cap. Then it should do some settlers, I guess.

Not sure what to do with new workers, but start a riverside grassland cottage while it's up by the capital. End turn here, actually. Compass is due next turn. Wanted to play 'till then, but alas.

We should consider settling on that little two-tile island off the eastern coast and get some overseas trade routes.

Mehmed II is annoyed with us and we are his worst enemy, of course. His power is insanely greater than ours, so we might want to stay on guard.

I have ONE worker start a road on Utrecht's bananas so that we can trade it, perhaps. If we can somehow make Mehmed happier, he has resources we'd want. Second worker on Bananas is still active.

Moved spearman closer to Barb territory to scope it out. Two warriors are active and were heading south to help fogbust.

I think that's it.

Sorry that I have no pictures, but I do not have time for that right now.

[Meiz]

Ok, got it and more comments later when I get a chance to look at the save.

[Meiz]

I'd like to get these three cities in the near future, and also increase our worker force quite a bit. Well, more axes would probably let us live long enough to actually benefit from above

[sturick]

Good turns Whosit!
Odd to see no pictures...but I have been in the same boat recently so I get it.

The good thing about Mehmed settling north of us is that Monty will finally meet him.
Hopefully he won't like him very much.

Meiz, I like your city choices they both seem sound.
Especially with the southernmost city being on a hill.

Normally, I would say to replant the barb city currently on the banana but it probably isn't worth wasting any hammers on a settler to do so.

Kudos to whomever came up with the culture flip for the barb cities!
It worked like a charm!

EDIT: I think we should switch to Slavery pretty soon to whip out the basic infra.
Most of our newer cities have a food resource they can use to regrow quickly now.

I also think cottaging that pig tile in Amsterdam would be nice for the extra hammer.

When choosing worker actions I would focus on getting food resources improved first.

[Whosit]

The lack of pictures has been rectified, to an extent.

Good idea about chopping/cottage pig hill, sturick.

City placement also looks pretty good to me, Meiz. Though I think it would be worth building a settler to choose a more ideal location for a city, rather than sitting on the bananas. A food source like that would be very valuable in a low-hammer economy.

[Meiz]

Preturn

No tech trading, right? No one said anything about begging



We also revolt to slavery and send workers to improve our southern cities. I feel like the pigs in Amsterdam can wait until the new cities are up and running...

Turn 1

Whip workboat in our "GP factory"

Turn 2

Compass -> Optics.

Whack an archer!



Turn 3

Another "Whack!" gets us woodsman III promotion.



Besides giving free experience, barbarians are also nice enought to build a city for us.



Turn 6

Thank you very much!



Sakae isn't doing bad at all, it even has a lighthouse. We probably still want to resettle it...



We get extra dyes connected and trade it for Montys wines.

Turn 9

Nasty event...



And whip granary in Minoan.

Turn 10

Churchill adopts vassalage, so he has Feudalism already

I want Amsterdam to grow before starting the settler, so I'll invest 3 turns on MoM. We will get a couple of pennys out of it eventually

Turn 11

The Great Library is built (not by us!), and Monty decides to convert to Judaism . We immediately follow him, so don't piss Monty off by mentioning Buddha or some other nonsense!

Churchill is being busy...



Turn 12

GP factory whips a library.

Turn 14

Monty gets a new city in the frozen north.



Amsterdam grows and starts a settler, while Utrecht whips a workboat for GP factory.

Turn 15

Allright, time to end my set. I don't know where Churchill decided to settle, but we could block him by capturing the barb city and killing our economy by settling Moai statues city (see below). Still might be a better idea to let him settle the freezing south peacefully, instead of giving him any ideas to come after us...



Next set should probably focus on settling the three city sites, and getting more troops against the barb cities. Good luck!

Roster
sturick
Whosit
Sengir
Meiz - just played
nocho - Up!
Norvin Green - on deck

[nocho]

Isn't looking bad at all! Cool the flipping worked...

I'll look at the save later and post some thoughts. And got it.

[nocho]

Originally Posted by Meiz

Next set should probably focus on settling the three city sites, and getting more troops against the barb cities. Good luck!

Settling three cities in my set will be a bit tough with only 1 settler in the queue, due in 16!

I guess I'll MM Amsterdam so it can be gotten in 12. Actually think it must be the last settler build in Amsterdam, the capital just doesn't have enough extra food and hammers for settler and worker builds. It better focus on some military.

I rather build settlers and workers in GP Farm. It has 4 food resources which will be great for that. We could let it grow to size 6, hire 2 scientists and then permanently pump settlers and workers.

Yeah, workers... I think we need a bunch more of those, there's just so much jungle to chop, cottages to be build and resources to be connected. So I'm tempted to immediately switch utrecht, The Hague and Minoan to workers despite their reduced sizes. Case is that even if they'd grow they'd hardly get more surplus food for the worker builds, so I'd rather do it now. Our current workforce of 6 is not bad, but 9 for the set after mine would be better. Thoughts?

[Meiz]

I did mean to type "sets" But I wont complain if you settle all three in the next 15 turns either...

Amsterdam is building a settler because it's on happy cap, but definitely focus on getting the GP farm improved. It will be a huge help! I was very tempted to start more workers, but decided to let the cities grow a bit more. Personally I'd start to build workers once the city can work all it's improved resources. For example, let Utrecht to grow once size so it can work bananas and two dyes.

[sturick]

Remember....we are Mehmed's worst enemy.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if he declares on us.
Keep Amsterdams garrison strong. I would pull back the warrior fogbusting near the iron.
The next settler in production should settle the flood plains site as I just don't think we can aggressively block off Churchill with our meager production at this time.

Sakae will be a tough nut to crack as it has walls...I would save our axes to defend against Mehmed for now...Sakae should be around for a while.

Workers should be a priority too. It is gonna take a long time to swath through this jungle...not to mention putting down cottages.
The sooner we can get GP factory at full speed the better.

[nocho]

On the inherited turn MM Amsterdam so it gets the settler in 12 turns.

T246 Mehmed adopts vassalage. A GE is born somewhere.

T247 Minoan whips a library.

T249 The Apostolic Palace is built and is Hindu, so by somebody we don't know.
Pillage a barbarian iron mine for some cash.

T250 Qin comes by asking if we have something to smoke for him . We send him away with a banana in his mouth that he happily sets fire to.


Our woody III axe finds a hut guarded by an archer.

Can' resist the temptation, hoping we'll pop AH or alpha or whatever, but it gets us a measly warrior.

T251 Taoism is founded somewhere. Both GP Farm and The Hague whip granaries.

T256 The settler is finished and is sent to found the southern most spot near the flood plains.
Renegotiate banana deal with Monty, from 6 to 9 gpt.
Utrecht whips barracks.

T257 Optics is in, we are now set to swallow 78 turns researching astronomy.

T259 The heathen Churchill adopts confucianism. GP Farm whips a lighthouse, the extra food from the sea food will be welcome, also the lake is a 3 food tile now.

T261 The popped warrior comes to close for comfort next to the western barb city and is killed by an archer. Bah.

T262 We found Rotterdam.


Cancel the banana demand by Qin. Make deals with the other two confucianists.
Mehmed, Silk for Banana.
Mehmed, 9 gpt for Dye.
Churchill, Spice for Banana.
Churchill, Cow for Dye.

We're no longer Mehmed's worst enemy, however, our power rating is abysmal. Hence all cities except GP Farm are building axemen right now. GP Farm is building a trireme, while waiting to grow to size 6 or 7. At either size I'd hire 2 scientists (1 is hired now) and go pump some settlers and workers. The trireme is in case a barb galley would show up with pillaging intentions. If not it can eventually also do some scouting and/or be upgraded to a caravel.

I'm thinking that if confucianism spreads to us, we may want to join that club. That makes us friends with 3 AIs. We can then send all reinforcements to Amsterdam for if Monty would come after us. We'll need more units though.

On another note, Angle is defended by 2 archers. We've got our sword and 2 axes next to it, be it one wounded. Another axe is coming, near Rotterdam now. We might want to take that city. Churchill got the one more towards his territory and founded next to the Moai signal, surely the settler that Meiz saw. Churchill has 2 HAs and a settler just south of Angle and I saw another settler of his more to the south 2 turns before I ended the set. So Churchill is expanding hard. That's another reason to get on friendly terms with him, as we'll get an open front with him.

[Meiz]

Solid set as always . And thanks for the image of Qin smoking bananas

I say we capture that barb city and concentrate on getting the two marked city spots up and running. Good idea to slip some axes between the builds, in case the AI's get some funny ideas (which I wouldn't be surprised at all...).

[sturick]

Yes well done nocho....its nice to see the jungle slowly going away.

Woulda been super sweet if that hut gave us AH...but alas...a warrior isn't half bad considering our power rating.

Something to consider...do we want to run a handful of turns at 0% science in order to upgrade all of our warriors to axes? We aren't really in a hurry to finish off astronomy (although masonry is after that and walls would be really nice) and warriors are gonna do us little good.

When GP finishes the trireme I would have it explore those islands to our east first before setting up shop protecting our nets. Someone mentioned the IC trade routes earlier. I think, which would be nice. But when we run out of land to settle then we need options.

Norvin, for your upcoming set you should focus on worker actions(duh) and whipping opportunities. Alot of the new cities don't have good tiles to work after a while. If you see a city working a lousy tile then it probably is time to whip. We have enough of a cushion with our happy cap that using the whip liberally is an option.

[Norvin_Green]

Plan: First and foremost don't CHOP any 3 tiles. Every time I look at Utrecht I smack myself in the head. I'd like to run 2 scientists in GP Factory. It cuts our GS from 50 to 25 turns and only costs us one turn of growth. After that I'd like to see us put it on settler/worker duty after trireme completes. Get Rotterdam's copper and banana working. It will cost us 880 to upgrade all our axes. I was thinking of doing 2 at a time to see what that does to our power rating. Falling even lower than we are could be fatal.

[Whosit]

Upgrading the warriors seems like a good idea. I'm not sure how much gold we'll be getting now at 0%. Hopefully more than on my set, even with some extra maintenance costs (those dyes are awesome for our financial civ). Still, it could be many turns to earn that 880 gold.

Anyone have any ideas on how to bump Monty up to Friendly (aside from praying?). Anyone could declare on us at this point. Also, suppose Monty goes to war with someone. He will inevitably demand that we join his war. We couldn't afford to declare (especially if it's Churchill, as we would be doing most of the fighting), but can we afford not to give in to his every demand?

[nocho]

Upgrading some warriors is a good idea, but I wouldn't upgrade them all, as it is a costly business. Just leave the warriors with their clubs in our "middle" cities as garrison. And put the axes in the border towns, Amsterdam and Rotterdam (or that barb city should we take it).

Churchill worries me most, he's at 0.2 power rating and is annoyed with us. Luckily, if you can say that, he's still busy expanding.

[sturick]

Upgrading the warriors was just a thought as I checked the save...I wouldn't bother unless the warrior is promoted in some manner.

The more I think about it the more I think we should focus on commerce and tackling the Astrology tech as fast as we can though. Getting walls from Masonry will help us so much more than having a few more axes.

So I wouldn't bother with the upgrading until we reach our next (fingers crossed) beast of a tech which is SciMeth.

[Norvin_Green]

Sorry for the bare bones report. I figured I’d throw the report together when I got to work this morning but the genius here forgot his notes. To sum it up here’s the basics. Captured Angle but lost our CR2 Sword and an axe. I was going to leave the barbs alone but Churchill sent an HA or two and had killed all but 1 archer. His current HA had strength 5 or so and I was afraid he’d take it so at 62% odds our sword lost. I figured our axe would have better odds than the 49% and lost him. Luckily Dumples, injured and all, was able to capture. After coming out of revolt a wb was whipped to work the crab. Churchill continued to expand quickly into the lower portion of our landmass. He settled SW of newly captured Angle and also SW of Minoan. We received some cash for non-completion of MoM and received the Holy Mountain Quest. Shockingly, we completed it! An extra for all our cities. I whipped several axes in cities as they started to work unimproved tiles. The trireme is exploring Mehmed’s land off to the east. He has a decent stack waiting to cross the small water barrier to us. He also has LB's and a vassal named Qin. I think sturick had a good idea to convert to Confucianism and come to grips with fighting Monty. The only problem there being that Confucianism hasn’t reached the smallish Dutch empire. The workers were busy chopping jungle and cottaging. After whipping an axe in the Hague a library is in the queue but has no turns put into it. Once again, sorry for the lack of better details in the report.

The capture of Angle:

Spoiler:

Cash from MoM:



Churchill REX:

Spoiler:

Mehmed has LB's and a SoD and Qin as a Vassal:

Spoiler:

Our Quest for the Holy Mountain succeeds:





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[Meiz]

So we have a holy mountain and the only problem is that no one knows where it is excactly. Oh well, the people are happy and that's what matters

Nothing much to add, except one very very minor thing. GP factory is building a settler, but it could grow in two turns and start to work the improved lake.

Edit: All right, also another thing