My issue with keshiks

Thor7 · Sep 18, 2009, 04:21 PM

Ghengis really lived in the 12th century, and although his keshiks were feared for their use of bows like horse archers, they went up against chinese pikemen and crossbows and won a lot of battles. Historically they seem more like knights to me, they fought around that time period and against medieval style opponents. Also I have read of ghengis adopting the use of long spears like lances, very much like a medieval knight. I think it would be more accurate and cooler if keshiks were a knight replacement with 10 str and a first strike chance and ignoring terrain movement costs, basically their upgrades from horse archers but on knights instead.

yared94 · Sep 18, 2009, 04:43 PM

That would be cool actually...

Protozoan · Sep 18, 2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor7

Ghengis really lived in the 12th century, and although his keshiks were feared for their use of bows like horse archers, they went up against chinese pikemen and crossbows and won a lot of battles. Historically they seem more like knights to me, they fought around that time period and against medieval style opponents. Also I have read of ghengis adopting the use of long spears like lances, very much like a medieval knight. I think it would be more accurate and cooler if keshiks were a knight replacement with 10 str and a first strike chance and ignoring terrain movement costs, basically their upgrades from horse archers but on knights instead.

This is implemented in Rhye's and Fall's mod of the game.

Bruin.Bound · Sep 19, 2009, 01:49 PM

To be honest I think that would actually diminish them. An enhanced horse archer is more valuable than an enhanced knight. Since keshiks are one of those UU's that had a very strong historical significance, I like being able to use them where they will have an impact on the map. Maybe they were used at a later date in the real world, but they could have been built much earlier. There was nothing complex about them, they just never appeared with a great leader until the 12th century.

pi-r8 · Sep 19, 2009, 04:30 PM

If you did this to them it would REALLY weaken them. At least the way they are now, keshiks can take over an entire continent. And it's not impossible to keep using them in the medieval period...

UWHabs · Sep 19, 2009, 07:01 PM

It's only an issue since knights are weak. Maybe give them as a replacement for a knight, but they'd come earlier (maybe at machinery, or feudalism)? Then they'd certainly be units to be feared.

Phrossack · Sep 19, 2009, 07:08 PM

I made them replace Knights. They have 10

, a 20% withdrawal chance, and start with Drill I. I made Drills 2-4 available to cavalry.

Powerslave · Sep 19, 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrossack

I made them replace Knights. They have 10

, a 20% withdrawal chance, and start with Drill I. I made Drills 2-4 available to cavalry.

That's an intriguing change. I like it a lot. What about the speed of Cavalry? Still just two movement points?

Phrossack · Sep 19, 2009, 07:50 PM

Yeah. At first, I gave Keshiks 3

, but this made them ludicrously powerful. I also removed their ability to ignore terrain movement costs, and they aren't immune to first strikes. But with Vassalage, Theocracy, a Barracks, and a Ger, they can more than make up for this all.

Glad you liked my idea!

Sep 18, 2009, 04:21 PM	#1
Thor7 Chieftain Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 31	My issue with keshiks Ghengis really lived in the 12th century, and although his keshiks were feared for their use of bows like horse archers, they went up against chinese pikemen and crossbows and won a lot of battles. Historically they seem more like knights to me, they fought around that time period and against medieval style opponents. Also I have read of ghengis adopting the use of long spears like lances, very much like a medieval knight. I think it would be more accurate and cooler if keshiks were a knight replacement with 10 str and a first strike chance and ignoring terrain movement costs, basically their upgrades from horse archers but on knights instead.

Sep 18, 2009, 04:43 PM	#2
yared94 Straight outta' Jamailla Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mum's basement, dad's attic. Posts: 1,025 Images: 4	That would be cool actually... __________________ "There was a time when his casual indifference and outright disrespect for most any other human being would anger you. Now, he’s becoming a model for professional detachment. There’s a shiver up your spine that you are starting to admire qualities in this failed human being in front of you." - Turn Me Loose: A Harry Potter Adventure "What do who call me when?" - The Fool in Fool's Errand "NEJ, NU JÄVLAR!!! "

Sep 19, 2009, 07:08 PM	#7
Phrossack Heavy Mounted Crossbowman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Eternal Steppe Posts: 256	I made them replace Knights. They have 10, a 20% withdrawal chance, and start with Drill I. I made Drills 2-4 available to cavalry. __________________ "Some people are like slinkies. They're not really good for anything but you cannot help but laugh when you push them down the stairs." ...However, we happen to know he's in the water barrel. -John Cleese, "How Not to be Seen"

Sep 19, 2009, 07:50 PM	#9
Phrossack Heavy Mounted Crossbowman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Eternal Steppe Posts: 256	Yeah. At first, I gave Keshiks 3, but this made them ludicrously powerful. I also removed their ability to ignore terrain movement costs, and they aren't immune to first strikes. But with Vassalage, Theocracy, a Barracks, and a Ger, they can more than make up for this all. Glad you liked my idea! __________________ "Some people are like slinkies. They're not really good for anything but you cannot help but laugh when you push them down the stairs." ...However, we happen to know he's in the water barrel. -John Cleese, "How Not to be Seen"

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Sep 19, 2009, 01:49 PM	#4
Bruin.Bound Chieftain Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 42	To be honest I think that would actually diminish them. An enhanced horse archer is more valuable than an enhanced knight. Since keshiks are one of those UU's that had a very strong historical significance, I like being able to use them where they will have an impact on the map. Maybe they were used at a later date in the real world, but they could have been built much earlier. There was nothing complex about them, they just never appeared with a great leader until the 12th century.

Sep 19, 2009, 04:30 PM	#5
pi-r8 King Join Date: May 2006 Location: Babylon Posts: 790	If you did this to them it would REALLY weaken them. At least the way they are now, keshiks can take over an entire continent. And it's not impossible to keep using them in the medieval period...

Sep 19, 2009, 07:01 PM	#6
UWHabs Emperor Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,100	It's only an issue since knights are weak. Maybe give them as a replacement for a knight, but they'd come earlier (maybe at machinery, or feudalism)? Then they'd certainly be units to be feared.

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