Ancient Wonders that Enable Civics

[dragodon64]

Historically, variety has been the norm in terms of the styles by which civilizations organize themselves (civics). However, RFC at the moment only accounts for the variety in labor and religion civics. I propose that some wonders be changed/added to allow for at least all the government and stability civics. Some legal and economic systems are less obvious, especially nationalism, state property and environmentalism, but arguments could be made for these as well.

I propose that the government enabler be made the Parthenon. Democratic government would thus be most often found among the Greeks, and possibly the Romans, but chance could still alter that. At the moment, the SPQR has no chance to exist during the Classical Era. At least Greek "Monarchy" is represented by a league. The Parthenon's ability could be switched to something else, like the relatively lame Temple of Artemis.

Stability is a bit harder. Greeks and Phoenicians were the first to do true resettlement (unless you count Assyrian depopulation as "resettlement"), the Assyrians practiced something similar to brutal occupation, and Athens was definitely a commonwealth. So, the question is, do we want another Greek wonder, a Phoenician one or an Assyrian one? I think Assyrian would be interesting, and could be represented with a Temple of Sin or Temple of Shamash. I'm for the latter, since the name of the former would probably give a weird impression.

The jury's out on Legal and Economic civic wonders, though. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

[usi]

The stability enabler sounds a great idea to me.
That should help ancient civilazations other than China and Persia to survive.

The government enabler might be too strong though.
In RFC, there's an abundance of food resources, so it'll prbably be stronger than the Pyramids in an unmodded game, which is already decisively strong.

[dragodon64]

That is definitely true... perhaps an increase in cost for the Parthenon (or whatever wonder is chosen).

Balance would be preferable, but I think having the slightest increase in variety of government style for the first 4500 years of the game would be welcome (Not differentiating between monarchy and despotism since they give the same dynamic name).

[blizzrd]

Originally Posted by dragodon64

So, the question is, do we want another Greek wonder, a Phoenician one or an Assyrian one? I think Assyrian would be interesting, and could be represented with a Temple of Sin or Temple of Shamash. I'm for the latter, since the name of the former would probably give a weird impression.

Or a Babylonian one? The Ishtar Gate was considered one of the 7 Wonders of the World until it was eventually replaced with the Lighthouse of Alexandria.

[dagriggstar]

I think that something should be done to enable the Inca to have state property as their economic civic...since that was their system...

[Cethegus]

Originally Posted by dagriggstar

I think that something should be done to enable the Inca to have state property as their economic civic...since that was their system...

Change in the UHV, "Be the first to research Communism"?

[Power_of_Beer]

Having Representation that early seems a bit too strong imho. In BtS it is balanced with the very high cost of the Pyramids, but in RFC marble and general production sites are abundant. Imagine tons of settled greece specialists boosted with Representation...

[killerkebab]

Originally Posted by Power_of_Beer

Having Representation that early seems a bit too strong imho. In BtS it is balanced with the very high cost of the Pyramids, but in RFC marble and general production sites are abundant. Imagine tons of settled greece specialists boosted with Representation...

Alternate history mode: "What if the Dark Ages never happened, and human scientific progress continued?"

[dragodon64]

Well, in RFC, that's what ends up happening. The only real exceptions to this case are when Greece goes on to discover Liberalism, before collapsing and taking those great secrets with it.

[Cethegus]

In my game, Representation gives only +1, +1 per Scientist and +3 in 6 largest cities. If the civics in RFC in general were modified, surely the Athenian Democracy could be given a chance to flourish and this fine fellow's request be heard? There's no way Representation is balanced even in unmodded game of Civ IV - each specialist is essentially a free Scientist on top of that.

Which reminds me, I think Scientists lose their appeal the further the game goes. Could Scientific Method increase the Scientist extra commerce by +1? I know the game core files need to be modified to achieve this.

[blizzrd]

Originally Posted by Cethegus

In my game, Representation gives only +1, +1 per Scientist and +3 in 6 largest cities. If the civics in RFC in general were modified, surely the Athenian Democracy could be given a chance to flourish and this fine fellow's request be heard? There's no way Representation is balanced even in unmodded game of Civ IV - each specialist is essentially a free Scientist on top of that.

Which reminds me, I think Scientists lose their appeal the further the game goes. Could Scientific Method increase the Scientist extra commerce by +1? I know the game core files need to be modified to achieve this.

For mine, Representation gives +3 per specialist and +3 in 5 largest cities.

[dagriggstar]

Originally Posted by Cethegus

Change in the UHV, "Be the first to research Communism"?

Was thinking add "Machu Pichu" as a wonder that enables all economic civics...