Rise of Mankind 2.9 discussion

[JosEPh_II]

Okay!, no one thinks Storms are out of Control but me!

Those 3 screen shots were only about 1/3 of the ocean on a Giant fractal Map. So far all the ocena I have explored is like those 3. It's a literal maze to circumnavigate the globe.

Maybe you all like this! I'm not too keen on it.

JosEPh

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by JosEPh_II

Okay!, no one thinks Storms are out of Control but me!

Those 3 screen shots were only about 1/3 of the ocean on a Giant fractal Map. So far all the ocena I have explored is like those 3. It's a literal maze to circumnavigate the globe.

Maybe you all like this! I'm not too keen on it.

JosEPh

I've never seen it so bad, that's why. But I think that the maze would be kind of cool...

[JosEPh_II]

The 1st time it was. But afterwards it gets tiresome.

Those coastal storms have been in place since I got galleys. They take hundreds to a thousand game years to Move, not Dissapate. They should dissipate.

I also get repeated msgs each turn that a "Storm has formed near X City". It never left X city's boundaries to start with.

JosEPh

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by JosEPh_II

The 1st time it was. But afterwards it gets tiresome.

Those coastal storms have been in place since I got galleys. They take hundreds to a thousand game years to Move, not Dissapate. They should dissipate.

I also get repeated msgs each turn that a "Storm has formed near X City". It never left X city's boundaries to start with.

JosEPh

Are you playing with any modmods? I don't know why, but that might affect it. I've never seen that many storms using my modmods.

[JosEPh_II]

No, no ModMods. It's 2.8 Lite straight up with no vassals and No Rev. No Hotfix either since I wasn't/ain't playin REV.

JosEPh

[vincentz]

Originally Posted by Cyrusfan

I finally moved a worker onto a jungle tile (I'm playing a snail game with revolutions on for the first time on Monarch and am quite pleasantly surprised by the pace) once I got Iron working and found a command to build a jungle camp available, and I must say I like the option. Is there any chance we could get something similar for forests early with that same chance of generating resources appropriate to orchards or plantations?

I still find I'm short on either salt or stone. If we could build quarries (maybe shift 1 point of the production from the resources that normally allow them) on deserts at least with a chance of discovering either (or marble, I guess), I think that would be helpful.

Im glad you like the jungle camp. I thought about something similar for forests as it is either cut or workshop until machinery. Maybe call it .... mmm .... Forest Camp
BTW The jungle camp should be available with stone tools, not iron working.

[Cyrusfan]

vincentz, I gather that's your creation then? Thanks! I meant that I never even moved the workers to jungle tiles until I could cut them. I'll know better next time.

For the forest camp, I kind of picture a treehouse or a hunter's stand, but I'm not sure why either would spawn apples and lemons. Maybe it makes sense if we think of the camp having a survey effect?

I also think that having 'ancient ruins' around from the beginning of the game doesn't make much sense. Maybe we could have none when a map is generated and have city ruins have a chance to generate them each turn, or with a fixed probability when a city is razed?

[CMKMStephens]

Originally Posted by JosEPh_II

Okay!, no one thinks Storms are out of Control but me!

Those 3 screen shots were only about 1/3 of the ocean on a Giant fractal Map. So far all the ocena I have explored is like those 3. It's a literal maze to circumnavigate the globe.

Maybe you all like this! I'm not too keen on it.

JosEPh

I'll back you up on this one. The two major seas in my previous game were about 1/3 to 1/2 stormed by the end of the game.

And for something completely different, since we have 'ammunition' as a resource, why not make construction of certain units dependant on it as opposed to the tech itself? Or a second resource called 'arms'. I'm thinking here about Imperial-Native interactions and the proliferation of arms in the colonial period, especially thinking of Native Americans or the Maori (New Zealand/Aotearoa). You wouldn't say that their 'tech tree' was anywhere near flintlock or whatever, but they quickly became highly proficient in the use of arms, even if they were second hand or inferior ones.

Being more knowledgable on NZ history (being from NZ), muskets were one of the major trading items in late 18th century and early 19th century New Zealand. They were to put it crudely, the great 'leveler'. When your societal position can be determined in a martial culture through close combat, a musket could put a hole in the mightiest chief without much too much skill. In the 1820s a mass purchasing of muskets by two major tribes (one in the North of the North Island, one in the South of the North Island) led to the 'musket wars' which overturned Maori tribal geography with little empires and hegemonies formed. The mass purchasing came from a proliferation of surplus arms following the end of the Napoleonic wars in Europe. These earlier wars in NZ ended not really due to victory, but when all the tribes had muskets and some proficiency and the advantage was lost.

Later wars in the 1840s through to the 1870s saw the British Army harried, and even defeated on occasion by Maori armed with the latest rifles.

The advantage to this in terms of Civ4 would be:
- to (moderately) arm your vassals or allies without having to give up your tech's
- with the arms 'prefabricated' as such, lower level civs could build somewhat more powerful units quicker. You could trade arms to smaller civs neighbouring your enemies if you want to cause chaos.

[szemek77]

Not much experience with 2.8 but I can admit that storms, which I generally find as a nice and interesting idea, went out of control. They make sailing almost impossible, and all you have to do is repairing your ships each time you move couple of tiles.

[civ_king]

I really liked the Industry very useful for hammers

[os79]

Originally Posted by civ_king

I really liked the Industry very useful for hammers

Yeah, Vincentz is a brilliant modmodder in addition to Afforess, Dancing Hosuld, and few others .

[mussbu]

Maybe in future versions we should be thinking of units going through wear & tear for land and sea travel. Omit the 'Storms' and instead have all naval units that travel outside of their cultural borders on a coastal square get a (for example) 10% chance of losing 1 strength point; if on ocean square a 75% chance. Docking in another friendly Civs port city (or your own) would restore it. Hoovering around endlessly in coastal or ocean squares without docking in ports would thus be costly. [Port of call?]

Square / Within Boundaries / Outside Boundaries
Coastal 5% / 10%

Ocean 40% / 75%

Land units could also experience wear & tear when going through a jungle or hill square (with no road) 15% chance. IRL, land units have to use up supplies when traveling through rough terrain, and also loss strength due to illness/disease. This would radically shift how units would move. Now in 2.8 and previous it was better to move through rough terrain for defensive bonus against possible attacks. This alternative would change this so it would be better to stay more on roads and less in rough terrain.

[Afforess]

With the way storms, by all accounts, seem to be slowing the game down, I think that storms should be removed from the main RoM mod, and added back in a modular form, in the unloaded Modules folder. They, if players decide they want them, they can put them back in, by just moving the folder, and the rest of us get a much faster game.

[little_cyclone]

If storms are whats slowing RoM down, I'm all for it.. the 2-3 minutes between turns is getting frustrating, as well as having 1/3-1/2 of my seas coated in storms... :/

[winthrowe]

Originally Posted by Afforess

With the way storms, by all accounts, seem to be slowing the game down, I think that storms should be removed from the main RoM mod, and added back in a modular form, in the unloaded Modules folder. They, if players decide they want them, they can put them back in, by just moving the folder, and the rest of us get a much faster game.

This sounds like a good way to go to me. While I like the concept, I also like large maps, so I could have them on in a small map and off in a larger one.

[fearthereaper]

Hey Zappara, would it be possible to add a feature that tells players when their units are ready to upgrade once they have researched the technology? It would work like if you research Feudalism, then a message will come up in the event box saying that your Archers are ready to be upgraded to Longbowman for (insert amount of required gold).

[little_cyclone]

Originally Posted by fearthereaper

Hey Zappara, would it be possible to add a feature that tells players when their units are ready to upgrade once they have researched the technology? It would work like if you research Feudalism, then a message will come up in the event box saying that your Archers are ready to be upgraded to Longbowman for (insert amount of required gold).

This is kind of already in place. When units are able to be upgraded, theres a little icon on their avatar/token indicating as such.

[fearthereaper]

Originally Posted by little_cyclone

This is kind of already in place. When units are able to be upgraded, theres a little icon on their avatar/token indicating as such.

Oh didn't see that. I don't pay attention to their little avatars.

[Cozart]

Originally Posted by fearthereaper

Oh didn't see that. I don't pay attention to their little avatars.

That's what happens when bananas dance!

[munky]

Originally Posted by Cyrusfan

... I also think that having 'ancient ruins' around from the beginning of the game doesn't make much sense. Maybe we could have none when a map is generated and have city ruins have a chance to generate them each turn, or with a fixed probability when a city is razed?

ancient ruins: you could plunder them for an immediate random gold amount or keep them for later cultural bonus usage [the Museum tie in]... this means defending them to prevent others, maybe even barbarians but the programming hassles would make this a headache, from plundering your ancient ruins.

maybe ancient ruins once plundered convert into a caravan unit which is can be captured, like in Colonization? which makes me wonder, does plundering Gold Mines with Shaft Mining cause a greater plunder amount?

---------------------------------

i love to run with stuff/ideas/hypothesis (agreed on mountains, and again will pitch that a fort is all messed up and should be reworked in RevDCM asap)... because it drives Zappara nuts.

oh, i just read all seven pages of the new 2.9 forum thread here. (1) i dont play Revolutions either [i for one think when a revolution breaks it is unfortunately akin to the American Civil War and i would prefer a more skirmish type / partisan style disruption - the times i did play with it i was amazed at the military power of the revolutionaries compared to the loyalists, all imho]. (2) i am unsure now of which modmods are 2.8 compatible. (3) i would think the leader packs should be dumped into the core game by now. (4) there are about 90% of the civics that i dont play cause of my style [this is no way means that the others are good or bad, i just dont use them]. (5) thinking of civics, there are also leader traits like seafaring, nomad, and deceiver that just dont have the universal benefits of others - i for one almost always choose Industrious for the wonder speed build benefit, wonders are and always have been the key to Civ, in score and advantages. i suggest a couple more bonuses to these traits.

and from the silly notes of playing over the years >>> i love using signs, the ALT S or whatever it is, to give me game notes written literally on the map itself. when i lost the Encyclopedia wonder by one turn my hatred of the Byzantine empire was so great i wrote 3 or 4 signs to remind me of which city built it and to punish him...

signs in multiplayer can be a blast, i will name some mountain chains for teammates that are taking too long turns... and other map geographic locations: gulfs, seas, peninsulas, etc.

and i like bunnies.