Terrain Templates... to make new terrain the easy way

[Blue Monkey]

The discussion has gone little past the original question, but GIMP can open PSP files. I guess that's what you're referring to as a template. It can also work with layers, including transparencies. So there really should not be a need to make 2 versions of the graphics files. I don't know about the programmed actions, however. I have always used cut & paste.

[tom2050]

Originally Posted by Supa

Yes, this is it.

What I've done is just a matter of making a few textures, using a few layers with transparency and finding the right angle. A lot like you but a lot less efficient.

I'm eager to test your templates. I might be able to finish my terrain pcx with them.

From the looks of it, you may not need to use any transparency. Pasting in the one type of terrain into the template, and the other... and it will stitch them together for you, with the 2nd terrain type always being the overlay over the first. Of course, you could set the opacity of either terrain type to make it more transparent on the appropriate layers so it should work with no problems.

So what you would do, is just take your texture and pattern it to a large size, then put it in the template and run the action. It is set up so that all tiles will match together in the end result (or should, if one of them do not, I can adjust the template accordingly). I'm not sure it will work perfectly for graphics like builidings, etc... but I would have to test.

Originally Posted by Blue Monkey

The discussion has gone little past the original question, but GIMP can open PSP files. I guess that's what you're referring to as a template. It can also work with layers, including transparencies. So there really should not be a need to make 2 versions of the graphics files. I don't know about the programmed actions, however. I have always used cut & paste.

If GIMP can open PSP files, then that is terrific, I can just make a PSP file for both. For programmed actions, GIMP needs a plugin I believe. Paint Shop Pro has automating scripts (actions) as well... from a quick google search, so that will be no problem.

In essence, the programmed actions do the cut & paste for you, so although it may not be necessary to run them, it will do in 5 minutes what would otherwise take hours or even days.

I am halfway done with the first XTGC.pcx action sequence, and it works perfect so far. It takes the new Tundra and Grassland graphics that have been put into it (the Tundra and Grassland layers), and C&P's the correct tiles into a TEMP XTGC.PCX file. Once done the TEMP PCX file will perform a terrain blending operation between the tundra and grassland edges, index the file... and your done. Then you can save the file as XTGC.pcx (it will not do this, because automated saving can sometimes cause problems, as it may overwrite a file, better to let the user do it).

The sequence of actions can be modified at any time by the user... and each tile has a selection saved as well.. which can be modified to the user's liking. Individual overlays can also be added by putting in an image into one or more of the tiles. A map of which layer is where is included in the background layer, as well as a isometric tile grid.

Here is example of what user would have to do in Photoshop:



the layer labeled '1st' is the Tundra. the layer labeled '2nd' is the Grassland (in that order according to the order of XTGC.pcx (1 Tundra, 2 Grassland, Coast). User would paste the terrain graphics into these layers.

Then the user would hit the play button circles in red. 5 Minutes later when all the actions are done (a few can be seen in the Actions tab), then user saves the file and is done. A completely unique and brand new terrain has just been born into the Civ3 world

-------------

In the layers list, each XTGC layer (00,01,02, and so on), is the ultimate overlay, so anything placed here will be placed on top of the terrain automatically. This is where the Coasts and Shore graphics are, but anything else can be added as well.

In the actions list, actions can be added or modified, of course the list is incredibly long so doing so is at user's discretion. Most circumstance would not require any modification.

Tom

[tom2050]

OKAY! The first terrain PCX template has been completed (all except for the final terrain-terrain blending portion; still have the other PCX templates to complete). But it has worked better than I expected in my wildest dreams (and no I don't actually dream about Civ3 terrain ).

The time it takes for it to make a new terrain PCX is under 2 minutes. It took me much longer to find the photos to use than to simply paste the photo in and hit the play action button.

Here are a couple examples of just the tundra portion (until the rest get completed, multiple terrains aren't blended properly).

Photo-Realistic Sand Dunes/Desert:


An early version of a Snow terrain I will be using:


A Grassland terrain I obtained from a photo online:


Lava terrain:


and Mars (still need to clean up the final template a bit, you can notice pixels here and there, and coasts need to be fixed)


Obviously, the photos that are used need to be somewhat uniform, otherwise lines will appear in sections as can be seen in some of the above.

This shows what it will be capable of... and these are quickly thrown together no-care-taken test examples.

Tom

[Steph]

It looks nice. The difficulty will be to be sure you cover all the combinations.

Don't forget the terrain files in civIII requires mixing 3 different terrains.

[tom2050]

Originally Posted by Steph

It looks nice. The difficulty will be to be sure you cover all the combinations.

Don't forget the terrain files in civIII requires mixing 3 different terrains.

Thank you.. the combinations have already been accounted for , I didn't show them because I didn't record the action that auto-blends the terrains together. I just finished doing that this morning, so the end result with the tundra and grass combination looks like this:



The blending method can be changed by the user... but in general this works the best I could see how. The selection areas can also be adjusted at any time which tells the action script where to blend.

Tom

[Pounder]

Tom this is a game changer, can't wait until you are finished.

[Underpaid]

Originally Posted by Pounder

Tom this is a game changer, can't wait until you are finished.

I agree. The long impossible-ish task of dealing with the xXXX.pcx files for making terrain is completely revolutionized by this. I have a question though: the simple blending of the terrains seems a little choppy (no offense). Will there be other options for where the different tiles meet?

[tom2050]

Originally Posted by Pounder

Tom this is a game changer, can't wait until you are finished.

The Photoshop version will probably be done much sooner than I anticipated, I looked at how the terrain PCX files are set up, and they are all either remarkably similar and some are even the same layouts. So since the bulk of the work is finished on the first one, the remainder of the PCX template files will just need some basic/moderate changes.

Originally Posted by Underpaid

I agree. The long impossible-ish task of dealing with the xXXX.pcx files for making terrain is completely revolutionized by this. I have a question though: the simple blending of the terrains seems a little choppy (no offense). Will there be other options for where the different tiles meet?

Thank you... constructive critisicm is better than none at all (helps me to know what to adjust or fix)... and I agree with the choppy part

Yes, you are limited only by what Photoshop, PSP, or GIMP is capable of doing (which is pretty much anything). You can change what filters you use to blend the terrain, you can adjust the Blur or Sharpness, use filter plug-in's, anti-alias it if you wish, or do whatever you like. The selection for the appropriate spots is already set up, so you can load the selection and then apply any effects you wish to get your desired effect. I could have done more to get rid of the chopiness, but I don't want to apply filters that may not come with Photoshop (so in the tuturial I will show how to load the selection to apply your own effects). When I make the PSP and Gimp templates, those will include a basic blending technique that is readily available with the base programs.

I used a Spatter, Sprayed Strokes filter combo to get that effect. Until I finish the remaining templates, it's tough to say from viewing the terrain in the editor what the final result really looks like in-game, in which I will probably tweak it to get the best result possible and to get rid of the chopiness.

Note I didn't spend much time on that part, as once all the templates are done, I can fine-tune them. Same with the shores, those need to be fixed, stray pixels taken out, etc...

Tom

[tom2050]

I'm still working on the terrain templates... I will set up a simple template for mountains and hills also, so the appropriate areas are selected where the user can adjust the hue, saturatation, and color to match the color of whatever terrain they are using (which is the most that I think can be done)... as adding a texture really isn't possible to get height and depth perception within a graphics program to any extent.

Also, I have PM'd Vuldacon for some info... as a button creation template is also possible, and I may make this next since I need to create some buttons (such as radar tower, outpost, etc).

And finally, I have thought of a way to possibly make a road (and maybe a railroad) template as well. The railroad would be a bit more difficult and would require some exacting graphics by the user to make sure the end result would match up (the railroad ties, etc), but I believe it is possible. The road template should be possible with graphics programs ability to transform and skew a single graphic to the desired direction (curves and twists of a road).

With this in mind, I will eventually test it to see if this can be done. So in essence, a single road graphic could be supplied (e.g. a straight road, with the graphic being small), and the template could take that and place it correctly into all the twists and turns of where the roads are in the original Civ3 PCX file.

Tom

[Vuldacon]

Tom2050... Perhaps this Thread should be renemed "Terrain and Interface Graphics, an easier way"

I am certain that anything you can provide that will automate the procedures will be a Great Help for many people.

[Takhisis]

So fart so good.
It looks nice.

[tom2050]

Photoshop Template for creating interface button graphics has been uploaded and thread has been created in the Utility Programs forum.

Tom

[RedAlert]

This is an excellent idea and I too will find this very helpful.

[tom2050]

The Photoshop Templates are getting very close to being complete. The last template for the last piece of terrain will be finished hopefully tonight. I will gone all day tomorrow, but on Sunday and Monday I will try to polish it up, fix some of the coasts, and put in a good overall terrain-terrain blend method... and by Tuesday/Wednesday it looks like I will be able to post it up.

I will just call it Version 1.0, but like everything, there's always room for improvement...

Once this is done, I will start working on getting the PSP version up and going. PSP has a 30 day free trial, but it shouldn't take too long to do. For Gimp, I will have to do a little research and see if it can be made compatible with the PSP version (with a plug-in maybe).

Tom

[nick0515]

Thank you so much Tom! This will make the near-impossible possible for people with rather limited talents like myself!

I can't say that I fully understand this yet so this might be a stupid question, but could the templates be used to make city buildings type terrain such as Vuldacon used in EFZI or the great New York stuff that Balthasar is working on?

[tom2050]

Originally Posted by nick0515

Thank you so much Tom! This will make the near-impossible possible for people with rather limited talents like myself!

I can't say that I fully understand this yet so this might be a stupid question, but could the templates be used to make city buildings type terrain such as Vuldacon used in EFZI or the great New York stuff that Balthasar is working on?

To be honest, I have absolutely no clue if it can or not. Any type of custom graphics can be overlaid onto the template before running it. But doing city graphics (which I'm not even sure how those are laid out that Balthasar has created - I would have to take a look at them) seems like a much more complex thing to accomplish.

In order to get the terrain to be 'uniform' and fit together, there are a few limitations to having a program do it for you.
1. The terrain needs to be somewhat uniform, like a pattern. Photos can be used, but if they are used, they must be somewhat uniform in color on the edges otherwise you will notice it. Too much complexity would be required to try to go further at this point in time (and for Photoshop, which requires that I record all actions initially, so I am making them to work for general use so-to-speak).
2. It is tough to know the huge amount of combinations possible for the terrain, so to avoid a much higher level of complexity, I created a terrain swatch which contained the possibility of all terrain squares. Doing this means that some squares in the end result are not all going to be unique. The same terrain styles may/will be used more than once.

Doing a custom terrain by hand from an excellent graphics artist would have much more versatility than a Photoshop program can really supply.

BUT, it is likely that some tweaks here and there over time will probably open up many more possibilities that I have not thought about.

It's a start (I'm still surprised it even worked period... I have never really created terrain before, and was completely unfamiliar with how it even worked before this, and still don't know everything about it). The positives are: create brand new terrain in a matter of minutes and few clicks here and there. It takes more time finding pictures/terrain patterns to use than it does making it.

Tom

[tom2050]

Here is a very early working version of terrain used that was a patterned terrain (not photorealistic).

Terrain blending has not been done yet, so there is none at this point; except for the snow-grass portion (which was an early version done just as a test). The early blend between the grass and snow made the terrain look 'square', so this is something I have kept in mind, to avoid. The goal to blend the terrain together will be to have it smoothed together, without looking pixelated, yet still have a crisp clean look... and also have a more natural flow (compared to this first working version, which is very square looking), so I will have to find the right combo of available filters to use to achieve this.

The swamp is not part of the terrain templates, since I don't think there is really any way to automate doing something such as the jungle or marsh terrains.



It is fully working though, so now I will be working on polishing it up, to try to get it posted (PSD version) early next week. PSP version will follow.

Tom

[Takhisis]

GIMP or DIE!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Takhisis]

Hmmmm... I'm helping a cousin along with an Open TTD map we're making... when we finish we might try converting some gfx, just for the fun of it (especially bridges and tunnels)

[Blue Monkey]

GIMP can import & export .psd files. So the Photoshop version should work for it. The only limitation will be the automated steps, as already discussed. But a really determined GIMP user could do the work by hand. That might actually be an aesthetic advantage - enabling finer control of the edge blending of various terrains.