Advertisement
Civilization Fanatics' Center

Go Back   Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION III > Civ3 - General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Oct 23, 2002, 03:18 PM   #1
Thunderfall
Administrator

 
Thunderfall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 11,772
Images: 1545
Airlifting Worker & Setters

This has been bothering me for a while... Why can't we use airports or helicopters to transport/airlift workers and settlers?
I think missiles cannot be airlifted also.

It doesn't make much sense.
__________________
Thunderfall
Weight: 1.0
Value: 161
Cast When used
Shock Damage 1 to 25 points on Touch
Thunderfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 03:43 PM   #2
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
 
warpstorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Snack Food Capital of the World
Posts: 7,688
Easy enough to check the flag in the editor.
__________________
"Perfection is attained, not when no more can be added, but when no more can be removed."
The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way
warpstorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 03:52 PM   #3
Cantankerous
...but I do know Shinola
 
Cantankerous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 601
Thunderfall,

That is a curious question I had always wondered about.

I'm not sure what the reasoning was behind Firaxis making that choice, especially considering that modern armor can be airlifted. (And considering that there are precious few aircraft in the world that can carry even ONE modern tank at a time because of their sheer weight.)

Maybe it could be that the AI would be at a disadvantage if workers and settlers could be airlifted. Would the AI not use this ability and thus give the human player an unfair advantage?

Of course you could always mod these units to allow airlift (but I assume that your question revolves around why the default game is as it is).
Cantankerous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 04:37 PM   #4
Sim_One
Emperor
 
Sim_One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,073
Even funnier is the fact that war elephants can be airlifted.
__________________
What's worse than a cold toilet seat? A warm toilet seat. There's only one way short of magic it could have gotten warm. At first, you're almost thankful it's warm, then you start thinking...
Sim_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 05:30 PM   #5
royfurr
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"
 
royfurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 368
Re: Airlifting Worker & Setters

Quote:
Originally posted by Thunderfall
This has been bothering me for a while... Why can't we use airports or helicopters to transport/airlift workers and settlers?
...
TF,
The reason usually suggested by experienced modders in threads where this is mentioned (eg player1 in his "patch suggestion mod" thread") is that workers and settlers represent a very large number/amount of population, whereas military units represent far fewer indivuals.

Personally I think the reason is that in programming the ai, they left out how to decide when to do this, and where to airlift too. These choices are pretty high level strategy decisions and the ai mostly does things on an immediate here/now basis, rather then looking into the future. (There is just far too many future possibilities to look at, so that approach just isn't workable with the computer power we currently have available.) Therefore, alowing settler/worker airlift would give the human player too much of an advantage, because of our ability to look at the "big picture" and towards future turns. So, they don't allow the ability. But, usually by the time airlift could be done, the game is most usually decided- we just have to play it out. Therefore, it might be an idea to implement it to reduce player micromanagement. OTOH, it might allow a loosing human to defeat an ai that would have won had the human not had this "advantage". In balance I am not sure if we should enable it in the editor or not. I haven't, but I'm curious-

ANYONE OUT THERE- if you have enabled this, does the ai use it and does the ai use it reasonably "smartly"?
royfurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 05:45 PM   #6
joespaniel
Deity
 
joespaniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Tucson, Arizoney
Posts: 5,258
I also would like to know if the AI will airlift settlers and workers.

I disagree with royfurr's explanation (yes I know it was originally someone else's), as military units would be greater in number AND have massive amounts of supplies, whereas workers would only have shovels.

Settlers I am not so sure, since they might want to bring along the dog, refridgerator, sofas, comic books and mom's precious antique plate collection. THAT might pose a logistical problem.

Airlifting tanks and modern armor is rediculous. It should not be allowed at all. An armored division must be transported by sea, and even then its a massive undertaking.

Also, I dont see why artillery cannot.

Royfurr is probably dead on about it being an AI issue, as I doubt it would correctly airlift such units. If so, it would unbalance the game.

Lets ask a Firaxian!

Last edited by joespaniel; Oct 23, 2002 at 05:50 PM.
joespaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 06:03 PM   #7
Thunderfall
Administrator

 
Thunderfall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 11,772
Images: 1545
Does Civ2 allow airlifting of settlers? If yes, then I see no reason why we can't do that Civ3.

I don't think allowing airlifitng of settlers and workers would put the AI at a disadvantage because by the time you have airports, settlers are rarely built. Airlifting workers to clean pollution, build railroads, etc, is not something that can give human player a great advantage.
Quote:
The reason usually suggested by experienced modders in threads where this is mentioned (eg player1 in his "patch suggestion mod" thread") is that workers and settlers represent a very large number/amount of population, whereas military units represent far fewer indivuals.
I agree settlers and workers units represent more people than a military unit, but it shouldn't be a problem because one turn in Civ3 is at least one year. You can transport lots of people in 1 year.
__________________
Thunderfall
Weight: 1.0
Value: 161
Cast When used
Shock Damage 1 to 25 points on Touch
Thunderfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 06:31 PM   #8
joespaniel
Deity
 
joespaniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Tucson, Arizoney
Posts: 5,258
Like TF said, settlers are usually not needed by then, so Im going to flag the airlift for workers and try it. Maybe artillery too, just to see what happens.

Also, if anyone is going to start a new game, I recommend downloading Balou's two infantry units in the creation forum, they are incredible.
joespaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2002, 06:53 PM   #9
royfurr
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"
 
royfurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally posted by Thunderfall
Does Civ2 allow airlifting of settlers? If yes, then I see no reason why we can't do that Civ3.

I don't think allowing airlifitng of settlers and workers would put the AI at a disadvantage because by the time you have airports, settlers are rarely built. Airlifting workers to clean pollution, build railroads, etc, is not something that can give human player a great advantage.

I agree settlers and workers units represent more people than a military unit, but it shouldn't be a problem because one turn in Civ3 is at least one year. You can transport lots of people in 1 year.
Ah, but ThunderFall, although I agree with you on one point (in a civ3 turn or one year, you COULD move a lot of Pop), airlifting settlers CAN be of advantage, and you might, could, want to build a lot of them. Why? Image you raze (thus avoiding culture flips) most of the enemies cities as you conquer them, and need lots of settlers shuttled over to the new continent to rebuild them. With corruption as it is in Civ3, you certainly are not going to be building those settlers on the new continent. So you got to build them in the heartland and move them over. The ai would never, I think, be able to figure this out. Of course, if your not conquering and burning the ai's citys to the groud, you don't need to do this, but, it IS one strategy that warmongers, in particular, could employ ... and having the airlift abiltiy for the settlers would help them greatly. Also, if you need the settlers for reconstruction, and workers to plant/chop down forest (for shields in corrupt cities), or to add to cities Pop, you would need to bring them over on boats (if airlifting wasn't allowed)- this strengthens/increases the need for, Navys. Thus, disallow it (airlifting workers/settlers).

I can't remember if you could or not airlift settlers in Two. I think you could. Still, this isn't Two and there are a lot of things that happen in Two that don't in Three. That doesn't, of itself, mean that one shouldn't be able to do so here, of course ...

I WOULD like to know how well the ai would use this, if it were allowed. IF the ai can use it reasonalby, then by all means, enable it.

I agree with you, joespaniel, that airlift of MA, MI, etc is poor. I reset those in the editor to be not eligble for that. I think that maybe Tanks, Panzers, and at least up throught Artillery should be, though. The Radar Arty is the only one I am unsure about, and I lean to NOT allowing them to airlift. It would be nice if we could only allow airlfit of these heavy units (still excluding MA and MI) after Advanced Flight, rather than after Airports (ie after regular Flight + construction of airports), but I don't think that that is possible. Oh well!

Civ on!
royfurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION III > Civ3 - General Discussions > Airlifting Worker & Setters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Advertisement

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site is copyright Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon CA | Amazon FR