Science Discussion- Queue's

Strider · Oct 31, 2002, 05:51 PM

We need to start coming up with a short & long term queue. We currently have a short term queue, but a long term one will also be nice.

Short-term queue
Lit
Poly
Monarcy
Map Making

Cyc · Oct 31, 2002, 08:55 PM

Now you just have to list which techs will be available when we've gotten the ones you've listed above. Then you can start a discussion and tell us why one would be better than the other. Then we can debate the 4 or 5 choices to come up with one to add to your list when we've developed Literature. When we do get Lit (no Donsig, not with beer), we can add the tech we've chosen to the list. Then you can list the next techs available and we can debate them to come up with one to add to the list when we get Polytheism. It can be a continual process like this.

Shabbaman · Nov 01, 2002, 03:40 AM

If we're going for the 0% science tax, shouldn't we go for currency?

Strider · Nov 01, 2002, 08:14 PM

When we've gotten the one's above we will have:

Code Of Laws
Philosphy
Mathematics

Availble..

I suggest we research Code of Laws, Philospy, then The Republic

Shaitan · Nov 02, 2002, 05:38 AM

Republic is a good one to research as it's an optional tech and we have a fair chance of getting it at minimum research before the AI bothers to research it.

Shaitan · Nov 06, 2002, 05:48 PM

What are our overall research goals? What should we do now that we have the Great Library? How does Science feel about the single scientist approach?

Strider · Nov 06, 2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaitan
What are our overall research goals? What should we do now that we have the Great Library? How does Science feel about the single scientist approach?

That's the whole problem I'm facing.... The nation is split between what are overall research goal is.

I believe we should try to let the AI research techs for us till we get education. Then we use the gold we got from no science for alittle while to support at nice science research rate.

It's fine right now, through I would say to get rid of the scientist's all together. Let the AI research for us sense we have the Great Library... No reason to keep a city from growing when he'll be useless in the state he is.

Strider · Nov 06, 2002, 06:05 PM

Here's the queue I would suggest:

Lit
poly
Monarcy
Map Making
Code of Laws
Philsophy
The Republic
Mathematics not sure if we have this one or not
Construction
Currency

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 06, 2002, 06:13 PM

Bump currency! We can get map making (i believe) from the GL. lets get our economy juiced. build marketplaces!

Strider · Nov 06, 2002, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Bump currency! We can get map making (i believe) from the GL. lets get our economy juiced. build marketplaces!

Don't need them.... Would be a waste of money from the maintance if we build them. Maybe when we have more lux's, but right now they are useless. The addition of harbors will be much better. (Then we can actually trade for more lux's)

donsig · Nov 06, 2002, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strider
Here's the queue I would suggest:

Lit
poly
Monarcy
Map Making
Code of Laws
Philsophy
The Republic
Mathematics not sure if we have this one or not
Construction
Currency

We will get lit, poly, COL, math and maybe phil next turn from the great library. I'd say monarchy and then the republic should be priorities for research.

Strider · Nov 06, 2002, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by donsig

We will get lit, poly, COL, math and maybe phil next turn from the great library. I'd say monarchy and then the republic should be priorities for research.

I believe we will get ALL of the techs from the GL.... If were researching at 40 turns then someone is going to get the tech before us.

Also.... The Republic is a priorty after Monarcy.

Shaitan · Nov 06, 2002, 07:26 PM

The 40 turn research is a crap shoot and only pays off if the AI neglects to research a tech. On the other hand, it's a minimum investment and the AI does in fact often neglect the dead-end techs. I say we should continue with a single scientist for now. The scientist can be bumped around as cities need to grow or be stifled.

Octavian X · Nov 06, 2002, 10:32 PM

Like I've said, in Dacula, the entertainer can be changed to a scientist without consequence. We really should change it.

Cyc · Nov 07, 2002, 12:14 AM

So if we headed for the Republic right after Monarchy. which government are going to utilize? (sighs) Loooks like another thread topic. I'm guessing the government with the word "pub" in it, right?

Shaitan · Nov 07, 2002, 02:33 AM

Monarchy. Most definitely Monarchy.

FortyJ · Nov 07, 2002, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strider (concerning Marketplaces...)
Don't need them.... Would be a waste of money from the maintance if we build them. Maybe when we have more lux's, but right now they are useless. The addition of harbors will be much better. (Then we can actually trade for more lux's)

On the contrary, the construction of marketplaces in several of our cities would actually increase their revenues (including the cost of maintenance). As the cities grew, the amount of increase would also grow. We also already have access to three luxuries (although only one is connected to our trade network presently), so the addition of a marketplace would also bring one extra "happy face" into those cities as well.

Edit: fixed italicize tag.

Strider · Nov 07, 2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FortyJ

On the contrary, the construction of marketplaces in several of our cities would actually [/i]increase[/i] their revenues (including the cost of maintenance). As the cities grew, the amount of increase would also grow. We also already have access to three luxuries (although only one is connected to our trade network presently), so the addition of a marketplace would also bring one extra "happy face" into those cities as well.

Yes, but the addition of harbors would be much better than that of the marketplaces.

FortyJ · Nov 07, 2002, 03:25 PM

Strider, I believe the point is moot, because we are likely to obtain both tech advances from the Great Library. But let's compare the two:

Harbors
Harbors 1) provide extra food from the water tiles; 2) provide the ability to trade overseas; and 3) produce veteran naval units.

It certainly appears that our world is a pangea. If this proves true, then I would think that this would severely reduce the tactical need for veteran naval units.

During peacetime, the trade benefit of harbors will only apply to those civs that also have a harbor but do not have road access to the worldwide trade network. During wartime, it will provide trade to those nations with harbors that are separated from us by an enemy nation (provided there is still a safe route by sea). Since we are appear to be on a pangea, building additional harbors does not offer any additional trade benefits (unless perhaps they are on opposite coasts).

Which of our coastal cities are in need of extra food production from the sea in order to grow? If I'm not mistaken, only Morgana could noticably benefit from such an improvement.

Marketplaces
Marketplaces 1) increase tax revenues by 50%; and 2) increase happiness generated by the third luxury and up.

They can be built in all cities, not just coastal cities, and in most cases, the extra revenue generated from the marketplace more than pays for its maintenance costs.

We currently have one luxury in our trade network. Once we make peace with Azteca and gain the city Tlacopan, we will add Furs to that network. And, as soon as we build a city in the incense fields SE of Tenochtitlan, we will add a third. Each city with a marketplace would have four "happy faces" instead of three, which means one less garrisoned troop in that city is needed to keep the peace.

While I agree that building a harbor would be wise, I firmly believe that marketplaces are much more beneficial to us at this time. Also, keep in mind that once we switch to Monarchy, we will need to start paying maintenance costs on all of our military units. The extra revenue generated by marketplaces can be a critical component in the smooth transition to Monarchy from Despotism.

Strider · Nov 07, 2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FortyJ
Strider, I believe the point is moot, because we are likely to obtain both tech advances from the Great Library. But let's compare the two:

Harbors
Harbors 1) provide extra food from the water tiles; 2) provide the ability to trade overseas; and 3) produce veteran naval units.

It certainly appears that our world is a pangea. If this proves true, then I would think that this would severely reduce the tactical need for veteran naval units.

During peacetime, the trade benefit of harbors will only apply to those civs that also have a harbor but do not have road access to the worldwide trade network. During wartime, it will provide trade to those nations with harbors that are separated from us by an enemy nation (provided there is still a safe route by sea). Since we are appear to be on a pangea, building additional harbors does not offer any additional trade benefits (unless perhaps they are on opposite coasts).

Which of our coastal cities are in need of extra food production from the sea in order to grow? If I'm not mistaken, only Morgana could noticably benefit from such an improvement.

Marketplaces
Marketplaces 1) increase tax revenues by 50%; and 2) increase happiness generated by the third luxury and up.

They can be built in all cities, not just coastal cities, and in most cases, the extra revenue generated from the marketplace more than pays for its maintenance costs.

We currently have one luxury in our trade network. Once we make peace with Azteca and gain the city Tlacopan, we will add Furs to that network. And, as soon as we build a city in the incense fields SE of Tenochtitlan, we will add a third. Each city with a marketplace would have four "happy faces" instead of three, which means one less garrisoned troop in that city is needed to keep the peace.

While I agree that building a harbor would be wise, I firmly believe that marketplaces are much more beneficial to us at this time.

Most AI's probley already have harbors. Also I doubt we will get a road connection to every Civ anytime soon. The lux bonus of the marketplaces would be almost nothing sense we could gain more happiness by trading lux's with other civs. (Maybe a better profit also)

Also.... I thought we used are Great Leader to build an army? If so we will never get the Great Library.

Oct 31, 2002, 05:51 PM	#1
Strider In Retrospect Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,976	Science Discussion- Queue's We need to start coming up with a short & long term queue. We currently have a short term queue, but a long term one will also be nice. Short-term queue Lit Poly Monarcy Map Making __________________ We pen our fates on the parchment of time. While turning to pages yet unwritten. But do our stories end once the ink has dried? Are the echoes of history all that remain of the past? #454158

Oct 31, 2002, 08:55 PM	#2
Cyc Looking for the door... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Behind you Posts: 14,735	Now you just have to list which techs will be available when we've gotten the ones you've listed above. Then you can start a discussion and tell us why one would be better than the other. Then we can debate the 4 or 5 choices to come up with one to add to your list when we've developed Literature. When we do get Lit (no Donsig, not with beer), we can add the tech we've chosen to the list. Then you can list the next techs available and we can debate them to come up with one to add to the list when we get Polytheism. It can be a continual process like this. __________________ There is a town in north Ontario, With dream comfort memory to spare, And in my mind I still need a place to go, All my changes were there. Blue, blue windows behind the stars, Yellow moon on the rise, Big birds flying across the sky, Throwing shadows on our eyes.

Nov 01, 2002, 03:40 AM	#3
Shabbaman rebuffing the rebels Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: the new civduelzone.com! Posts: 3,577	If we're going for the 0% science tax, shouldn't we go for currency? __________________ "Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"

Nov 01, 2002, 08:14 PM	#4
Strider In Retrospect Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,976	When we've gotten the one's above we will have: Code Of Laws Philosphy Mathematics Availble.. I suggest we research Code of Laws, Philospy, then The Republic __________________ We pen our fates on the parchment of time. While turning to pages yet unwritten. But do our stories end once the ink has dried? Are the echoes of history all that remain of the past? #454158

Nov 06, 2002, 06:05 PM	#8
Strider In Retrospect Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,976	Here's the queue I would suggest: Lit poly Monarcy Map Making Code of Laws Philsophy The Republic Mathematics not sure if we have this one or not Construction Currency __________________ We pen our fates on the parchment of time. While turning to pages yet unwritten. But do our stories end once the ink has dried? Are the echoes of history all that remain of the past? #454158

Nov 02, 2002, 05:38 AM	#5
Shaitan der Besucher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,546	Republic is a good one to research as it's an optional tech and we have a fair chance of getting it at minimum research before the AI bothers to research it.

Nov 06, 2002, 05:48 PM	#6
Shaitan der Besucher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,546	What are our overall research goals? What should we do now that we have the Great Library? How does Science feel about the single scientist approach?

Nov 06, 2002, 06:13 PM	#9
Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 3,937	Bump currency! We can get map making (i believe) from the GL. lets get our economy juiced. build marketplaces!

Nov 06, 2002, 07:26 PM	#13
Shaitan der Besucher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,546	The 40 turn research is a crap shoot and only pays off if the AI neglects to research a tech. On the other hand, it's a minimum investment and the AI does in fact often neglect the dead-end techs. I say we should continue with a single scientist for now. The scientist can be bumped around as cities need to grow or be stifled.

Nov 06, 2002, 10:32 PM	#14
Octavian X is not a pipe. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: deceiving people with images Posts: 5,428	Like I've said, in Dacula, the entertainer can be changed to a scientist without consequence. We really should change it.

Nov 07, 2002, 12:14 AM	#15
Cyc Looking for the door... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Behind you Posts: 14,735	So if we headed for the Republic right after Monarchy. which government are going to utilize? (sighs) Loooks like another thread topic. I'm guessing the government with the word "pub" in it, right? __________________ There is a town in north Ontario, With dream comfort memory to spare, And in my mind I still need a place to go, All my changes were there. Blue, blue windows behind the stars, Yellow moon on the rise, Big birds flying across the sky, Throwing shadows on our eyes.

Nov 07, 2002, 02:33 AM	#16
Shaitan der Besucher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,546	Monarchy. Most definitely Monarchy.

Nov 07, 2002, 03:25 PM	#19
FortyJ Deity Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 2,186	Strider, I believe the point is moot, because we are likely to obtain both tech advances from the Great Library. But let's compare the two: Harbors Harbors 1) provide extra food from the water tiles; 2) provide the ability to trade overseas; and 3) produce veteran naval units. It certainly appears that our world is a pangea. If this proves true, then I would think that this would severely reduce the tactical need for veteran naval units. During peacetime, the trade benefit of harbors will only apply to those civs that also have a harbor but do not have road access to the worldwide trade network. During wartime, it will provide trade to those nations with harbors that are separated from us by an enemy nation (provided there is still a safe route by sea). Since we are appear to be on a pangea, building additional harbors does not offer any additional trade benefits (unless perhaps they are on opposite coasts). Which of our coastal cities are in need of extra food production from the sea in order to grow? If I'm not mistaken, only Morgana could noticably benefit from such an improvement. Marketplaces Marketplaces 1) increase tax revenues by 50%; and 2) increase happiness generated by the third luxury and up. They can be built in all cities, not just coastal cities, and in most cases, the extra revenue generated from the marketplace more than pays for its maintenance costs. We currently have one luxury in our trade network. Once we make peace with Azteca and gain the city Tlacopan, we will add Furs to that network. And, as soon as we build a city in the incense fields SE of Tenochtitlan, we will add a third. Each city with a marketplace would have four "happy faces" instead of three, which means one less garrisoned troop in that city is needed to keep the peace. While I agree that building a harbor would be wise, I firmly believe that marketplaces are much more beneficial to us at this time. Also, keep in mind that once we switch to Monarchy, we will need to start paying maintenance costs on all of our military units. The extra revenue generated by marketplaces can be a critical component in the smooth transition to Monarchy from Despotism. Last edited by FortyJ; Nov 07, 2002 at 03:28 PM.

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