Best New UU (Besides Berserk!)?

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2002, 08:16 PM

I'm not even including that amazing Beserk in this poll, because I want to see how you like the other UUs. My pick is the Hwach'a. You may think this is odd (because it can't even cause a golden age), but let me explain myself: it is an artillery in the late-Middle Ages. It has bombard of 12, same as your regular old artillery, and it replaces cannons. Come one, who wouldn't love some artillery to stack with those cavs against rifles? These things could be great; same bombard as arty, a whole age before artillery arrive. Imagine those early Industrial age stalmates, broken up by a nice Hwach'a. Seriously, these things are great!

CG

andrewgprv · Oct 31, 2002, 08:21 PM

Good Argument for the Hwacha

jumbo2002 · Oct 31, 2002, 08:32 PM

I've only played around a little bit with the new Civs, but I like the Gallic Swordsman a lot. I've been playing the Celts in a SP game (in between attempts at MP...which has been getting a little better lately), and the GS has been a force. The extra move for an early offensive unit is huge. Withdraw ability, maneuver around bad terrain (such as attacking across rivers), "first strike" against other offensive units, and the ability to rapidly deploy forces to the front lines are all big pluses. No, it wouldn't be as good at pure "focal point" offense as, say, the Immortal. But they are an all around great unit. The extra defense point makes a difference compared to the MW, too.

Oh yeah, the fact that they can withdraw can make stacks of them (with some good tactics and a little luck) nearly invulnerable counterbalances the increased unit cost.

Major Guevara · Oct 31, 2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cgannon64
. My pick is the Hwach'a. You may think this is odd (because it can't even cause a golden age), but let me explain myself: it is an artillery in the late-Middle Ages. It has bombard of 12, same as your regular old artillery, and it replaces cannons. Come one, who wouldn't love some artillery to stack with those cavs against rifles? These things could be great; same bombard as arty, a whole age before artillery arrive. Imagine those early Industrial age stalmates, broken up by a nice Hwach'a. Seriously, these things are great!

CG

Well, they only got one in bombard value so the enemy dont loose more then one HP at the time.

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2002, 08:56 PM

I don't really like the Numidian mercenary that much, its cost turns me off. In my second city, close to my capital, only 1 shield corruption, size three, it would have taken 24 turns to build one. That is insane!

Major Guevara: Yeah, but they will be deadly in stacks, same as artillery.

CG

tcjsavannah · Oct 31, 2002, 09:23 PM

Well, in my current game as the Vikings, I've got the Koreans to the south of me and they're the next-most-powerful civ so I hope they don't use their Hwachas like you say to...

BTW, the Berserkers have been great.. have an aggressive Civ warring with you? Pop out two Berserkers on a coastal city with Spearman, sue for peace, end of story. Three times now and the Celts still haven't figured it out yet...

Cantankerous · Oct 31, 2002, 09:51 PM

You gotta like the Ottoman Sipahi. Very expensive unit (100 gold vs. 80 for cavalry), but with an attack of 8, it packs quite a punch. (And hopefully you'll have several BEFORE the Berserk hoardes land on your shores.)

monkspider · Oct 31, 2002, 10:10 PM

I like the Numidian Merc, a game-breaker in ancient times.

Heffalump · Nov 01, 2002, 07:57 AM

So do Keshik's treat any terrain as grassland, or only mountains?

Seems odd they would have that advantage for mountains, but not hills, etc.

werdhertz · Nov 01, 2002, 08:02 AM

i like hwacha best as well

kinckus · Nov 06, 2002, 05:44 PM

can the kesihik only treat monutains as grassland? can it treat hills as grassland too?
:rocket: :rocket2:

Silverflame · Nov 06, 2002, 05:55 PM

I have to say that I dont really like the Keshik. It only ignores mountain movement costs, so it seems too much like a regular knight. Unless there is a huge group of mountains, the keshiks advantages arent all that great.

Buecephalus · Nov 06, 2002, 06:53 PM

I have to agree with Jumbo2002. Not that any of the units you mentioned are bad, they're great. The GS however, is simply bad-ass. A swordsman with withdraw capability? It's basically an ancient cavalry unit when you compare with other units of the same era. I suppose it also depends on the type of game you prefer to play. I like short conquer games so it's the perfect unit for me.

Azale · Nov 06, 2002, 07:08 PM

Quote:

My pick is the Hwach'a. You may think this is odd (because it can't even cause a golden age), but let me explain myself: it is an artillery in the late-Middle Ages. It has bombard of 12, same as your regular old artillery, and it replaces cannons. Come one, who wouldn't love some artillery to stack with those cavs against rifles? These things could be great; same bombard as arty, a whole age before artillery arrive. Imagine those early Industrial age stalmates, broken up by a nice Hwach'a. Seriously, these things are great!

I agree

The only thing is, it doesn't have two movement points.

Sultan Bhargash · Nov 06, 2002, 09:07 PM

My vote is with the Numidians for now. Time was you had to send an archer and a spearman to do offense defense. Now you just send one of these bad boys in there and he can take care of himself.

Ansar's mobility led me to praise them early, and they are strong.

I believe Hwacha do cause golden ages somehow. I think I read that in another thread somewhere...

RobOz · Nov 07, 2002, 10:12 AM

I read that same thing. In fact, I believe it was one of the questions asked not in the last Firaxis chat, but the one before.

I have been keeping quiet pretty much, though since everyone keeps saying contrary. I thought perhaps I was remembering incorrectly.

DaDoo · Nov 07, 2002, 10:26 AM

I like the Ansar Warriors. Wars for me tends to start around when i get knights and with the cheaper cost, I can build more faster. That usually translate into sending a much BIGGER hoarde of "knight" units into enemy territory. Eventually that'll also translate into a huge Cav army too when the tech arrives.

RedRocker · Nov 07, 2002, 02:05 PM

I picked the Gallic Swordsman, for all the reasons already mentioned above. Build a road to your opponent, send stacks of GS, and watch your army devastate everything in sight at an incredible speed! If used correctly, they're even stronger than Immortals.

superunknown · Nov 07, 2002, 04:25 PM

All this talk about berserk hordes landing on the shores, makes me feel warm inside. You gotta love amphibious attack..

oliver088 · Nov 07, 2002, 04:58 PM

Don't agree with you all. The gallic swordsman is a rip off, as is the berserk.

The berserk is almost 2x as pricey as a medieval infantry, for only 1.5x as much attack and amphibious assault. Not too useful considering when you get it your ships are probably galleys and you can't even go off of costal tiles, plus inland he gets raped by knights unless he has an escort of musketmen. All this adds up to a very pricey unit as he can't really do it alone (needs ship or musketmen) plus costs a lot and no retreat so if he dies its all lost.

He's still good as 6 attack kills all, and golden age is at a good time, but not as good as everyone thinks he is.

As for gallic swordsman, he is not good. He's almost 2x as expensive as a swordsman and all he gets is +1 move (and retreat) I'd rather have two swordsman since at that age I don't fight long distance wars!! Immortal is the same price as original swordsman and thus much better. Mounted warrior is cheaper as well.

Now numidian merc, there's a unit. Here you only pay 10 extra shields and get +1 to two stats!! Hwacha is deadly too.

View Poll Results: Best UU in PTW, Excluding Beserk?
Ansar Warrior, 4.2.3, cheaper than knights	9	8.57%
Conquistador, 3.2.2, all terrain as roads	5	4.76%
Gallic Swordsman, 3.2.2, extra move point	21	20.00%
Hwach'a, 0.0.1, bombard of 12	12	11.43%
Keshik, 4.2.2, less needed resources, treats mountains as grassland	2	1.90%
Numidian Mercenary, 2.3.1, extra offensive and defensive point	25	23.81%
Siphai, 7.3.3, extra offenive point	31	29.52%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

Oct 31, 2002, 08:16 PM	#1
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	Best New UU (Besides Berserk!)? I'm not even including that amazing Beserk in this poll, because I want to see how you like the other UUs. My pick is the Hwach'a. You may think this is odd (because it can't even cause a golden age), but let me explain myself: it is an artillery in the late-Middle Ages. It has bombard of 12, same as your regular old artillery, and it replaces cannons. Come one, who wouldn't love some artillery to stack with those cavs against rifles? These things could be great; same bombard as arty, a whole age before artillery arrive. Imagine those early Industrial age stalmates, broken up by a nice Hwach'a. Seriously, these things are great! CG __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2002, 08:56 PM	#5
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	I don't really like the Numidian mercenary that much, its cost turns me off. In my second city, close to my capital, only 1 shield corruption, size three, it would have taken 24 turns to build one. That is insane! Major Guevara: Yeah, but they will be deadly in stacks, same as artillery. CG __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2002, 09:23 PM	#6
tcjsavannah Wow, it's been a while... Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: uh, Savannah :) Posts: 1,273	Well, in my current game as the Vikings, I've got the Koreans to the south of me and they're the next-most-powerful civ so I hope they don't use their Hwachas like you say to... BTW, the Berserkers have been great.. have an aggressive Civ warring with you? Pop out two Berserkers on a coastal city with Spearman, sue for peace, end of story. Three times now and the Celts still haven't figured it out yet... __________________ Fry: "But, but, won't that change history?" Professor: "Oooh… A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-my-own-grandpa! Let's get the hell out of here already. Screw history!"

Oct 31, 2002, 10:10 PM	#8
monkspider Warlord Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 261	I like the Numidian Merc, a game-breaker in ancient times. __________________ Unlock the Sumerians! Check out the Sumerians as Firaxis intended Mod. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=153683

Oct 31, 2002, 08:21 PM	#2
andrewgprv Second Class Citizen Join Date: May 2002 Location: Idaho Falls, USA Posts: 3,541	Good Argument for the Hwacha

Oct 31, 2002, 08:32 PM	#3
jumbo2002 Big Elephant Join Date: May 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 174	I've only played around a little bit with the new Civs, but I like the Gallic Swordsman a lot. I've been playing the Celts in a SP game (in between attempts at MP...which has been getting a little better lately), and the GS has been a force. The extra move for an early offensive unit is huge. Withdraw ability, maneuver around bad terrain (such as attacking across rivers), "first strike" against other offensive units, and the ability to rapidly deploy forces to the front lines are all big pluses. No, it wouldn't be as good at pure "focal point" offense as, say, the Immortal. But they are an all around great unit. The extra defense point makes a difference compared to the MW, too. Oh yeah, the fact that they can withdraw can make stacks of them (with some good tactics and a little luck) nearly invulnerable counterbalances the increased unit cost.

Oct 31, 2002, 09:51 PM	#7
Cantankerous ...but I do know Shinola Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 601	You gotta like the Ottoman Sipahi. Very expensive unit (100 gold vs. 80 for cavalry), but with an attack of 8, it packs quite a punch. (And hopefully you'll have several BEFORE the Berserk hoardes land on your shores.)

Nov 01, 2002, 07:57 AM	#9
Heffalump Proboscidea Heffalumpus Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Niederkleen, Germany Posts: 644	So do Keshik's treat any terrain as grassland, or only mountains? Seems odd they would have that advantage for mountains, but not hills, etc.

Nov 01, 2002, 08:02 AM	#10
werdhertz I speak Canadianese Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 250	i like hwacha best as well

Nov 06, 2002, 05:44 PM	#11
kinckus Chieftain Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 8	can the kesihik only treat monutains as grassland? can it treat hills as grassland too? :rocket: :rocket2:

Nov 06, 2002, 05:55 PM	#12
Silverflame OBJECTION! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On the West Coast Posts: 2,111	I have to say that I dont really like the Keshik. It only ignores mountain movement costs, so it seems too much like a regular knight. Unless there is a huge group of mountains, the keshiks advantages arent all that great.

Nov 06, 2002, 06:53 PM	#13
Buecephalus Bolo Mark XXV Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Just off Route 66, USA Posts: 216	I have to agree with Jumbo2002. Not that any of the units you mentioned are bad, they're great. The GS however, is simply bad-ass. A swordsman with withdraw capability? It's basically an ancient cavalry unit when you compare with other units of the same era. I suppose it also depends on the type of game you prefer to play. I like short conquer games so it's the perfect unit for me.

Nov 06, 2002, 09:07 PM	#15
Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Missing The Harem Posts: 7,608	My vote is with the Numidians for now. Time was you had to send an archer and a spearman to do offense defense. Now you just send one of these bad boys in there and he can take care of himself. Ansar's mobility led me to praise them early, and they are strong. I believe Hwacha do cause golden ages somehow. I think I read that in another thread somewhere... __________________ "It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people." - Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

Nov 07, 2002, 10:12 AM	#16
RobOz Whatchoo lookin at? Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 194	I read that same thing. In fact, I believe it was one of the questions asked not in the last Firaxis chat, but the one before. I have been keeping quiet pretty much, though since everyone keeps saying contrary. I thought perhaps I was remembering incorrectly.

Nov 07, 2002, 10:26 AM	#17
DaDoo Prince Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 371	I like the Ansar Warriors. Wars for me tends to start around when i get knights and with the cheaper cost, I can build more faster. That usually translate into sending a much BIGGER hoarde of "knight" units into enemy territory. Eventually that'll also translate into a huge Cav army too when the tech arrives. __________________ Nothing is more accurate than friendly fire.

Nov 07, 2002, 02:05 PM	#18
RedRocker Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Québec City Posts: 16	I picked the Gallic Swordsman, for all the reasons already mentioned above. Build a road to your opponent, send stacks of GS, and watch your army devastate everything in sight at an incredible speed! If used correctly, they're even stronger than Immortals.

Nov 07, 2002, 04:25 PM	#19
superunknown Fake Plastic Head Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in the dark Posts: 537	Berserk All this talk about berserk hordes landing on the shores, makes me feel warm inside. You gotta love amphibious attack.. __________________ "Your prayers are always answered, in the order they were received."

Nov 07, 2002, 04:58 PM	#20
oliver088 Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 10	Don't agree with you all. The gallic swordsman is a rip off, as is the berserk. The berserk is almost 2x as pricey as a medieval infantry, for only 1.5x as much attack and amphibious assault. Not too useful considering when you get it your ships are probably galleys and you can't even go off of costal tiles, plus inland he gets raped by knights unless he has an escort of musketmen. All this adds up to a very pricey unit as he can't really do it alone (needs ship or musketmen) plus costs a lot and no retreat so if he dies its all lost. He's still good as 6 attack kills all, and golden age is at a good time, but not as good as everyone thinks he is. As for gallic swordsman, he is not good. He's almost 2x as expensive as a swordsman and all he gets is +1 move (and retreat) I'd rather have two swordsman since at that age I don't fight long distance wars!! Immortal is the same price as original swordsman and thus much better. Mounted warrior is cheaper as well. Now numidian merc, there's a unit. Here you only pay 10 extra shields and get +1 to two stats!! Hwacha is deadly too.

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