Will it be steam based?

[Senethro]

Originally Posted by The_J

Rejecting a possible option is just idioty.

Perhaps you are the idioty?

Go find an example of the hypothetical situation happening. Seriously. THere have been a couple of alleged incidents of false positives for cheats detected but I@ve never heard of someone being banned for that part of the EULA. And with the unreasonable steam hatred that people have, they would be publicised.

[cspyr0]

Originally Posted by The_J

PieceOfMind has shown you some examples, where the subject could be interpreted as a violation of the rules.
You don't know, if there's really any person sitting there, which investigates the reports. There's a big chance, that there's just a system, in which you'll get banned, when enough people have complained about you, and then you have to argue with Valve to get your account back.

Rejecting a possible option is just idioty.

Originally Posted by cspyr0

Valve does NOT ban for griefing or cursing or even if a hundred people report you for something. The procedure to get someone banned is to let Valve know the person's username, at which point Valve investigates and if they personally witness cheating then they ban.

This is how Valve operates - I know from reading about it a lot on their forums. I'm not going to say it's impossible that an innocent could get banned, because it is possible. Then again it's also possible that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster had a love child that will one day be our messiah.

[Tamed]

^That's not true at all. Valve has it's own anti-cheat program called VAC, which is an automated robotic program that tracks online activities in VAC enabled games for hacking activity. Atleast don't spread false stories.

Even if you go into a game and threaten to murder someone and list exact details of when\where you're going to do it, Valve will do nothing, ever, at all. There's absolutely no Valve-personal moderation on the Steam platform.

The only time Valve steps in is over hacked accounts.

[cspyr0]

Originally Posted by Tamed

^That's not true at all. Valve has it's own anti-cheat program called VAC, which is an automated robotic program that tracks online activities in VAC enabled games for hacking activity. Atleast don't spread false stories.

Even if you go into a game and threaten to murder someone and list exact details of when\where you're going to do it, Valve will do nothing, ever, at all. There's absolutely no Valve-personal moderation on the Steam platform.

The only time Valve steps in is over hacked accounts.

You're right - people used to post replays on the forums of hackers and I guess Valve didn't like that. Looks like their policy now is to only rely on VAC. That's good since it won't make mistakes. Also bad because there are quite a few hacks that get around VAC, though.

[PieceOfMind]

Originally Posted by Chalks

BuT MaYbE iT wIlL!1!!

It's a losing battle against people who's only purpose here is to twist things out of context. You won't convince them without a signed contract from every single decision maker at Valve saying that they don't do something that everyone knows they're not going to do, because they are desperate for anti-steam arguments, no matter how ludicrous.

[Attempt to end an argument by discrediting those you don't agree with, labelling them as desperate and ludicrous and accusing them of twisting things out of context.]

You might have better luck with convincing others if you didn't make your arguments so personal.

For example, I'm not a steam-hater, though I'm pretty sure you believe I am one. I play a game on Steam and have found it satisfactory for that game. I don't think it's absolutely wonderful i.e. I'm not a Steam fanboy, so I have no obligation to make Steam sound like a perfect product. On my current setup for playing Civ4, loading up Steam all the time to play Civ would be another hassle for me because my computer is not always on (I have many on-off cycles) and Steam does not load up in a trivial time (IIRC it's something on the order of a minute rather than mere seconds - that could vary with other computers obviously).

Back on the point,
It would not be hard for Steam to fix their subscriber agreement so that it does not have a ridiculously open "negatively affect enjoyment of steam by other subscribers" clause, or even for them to implement a compulsory warning before being able to ban. Even cheaters IMO do not necessarily deserve being banned entirely. If they're cheating in MP, sure, ban them from MP, but do they get prevented from playing SP as well?
Cheaters are still paying customers (probably).

(EDIT... With a bit of reading, I think it's the case that banned "cheaters" can still play single player so my last question there is answered for me.)

Originally Posted by cspyr0

You bring up good points which mirror what I've said in a lot of posts - I'm the one who said DRM is primarily (and sneakily) used to attempt to cripple the second-hand market. I never sell games so I don't care, but it's a legit concern for some.

As far as them having the power to ban you, yeah they have it and there is a possibility they could exercise that power. It's extremely low, and not even a concern if you're not cheating though. Valve does NOT ban for griefing or cursing or even if a hundred people report you for something. The procedure to get someone banned is to let Valve know the person's username, at which point Valve investigates and if they personally witness cheating then they ban.

It's seriously like a innocent until proven guilty kind of thing, which is good because it means they won't make many mistakes banning people, if any. It can actually be frustrating to me in multiplayer games, though, to see someone blatantly cheat and not have a way to get them banned in a timely fashion. Honestly I see where you're coming from about their vagueness giving them awesome power over your games, but it's really common (and will probably be in the other DRM's you get to choose from) and not much to worry about. Especially if you're not cheating and even more so if you only play single player.

That's actually useful information to me and others reading the thread so thanks for pointing it out.

[the343danny]

I posted this on another thread like this, but...

As we know, we have an in game mod browser with the possibility to connect to civfanatics, and possibly the entire web. Steam has an in game browser too, but no mod browser such as what they mentioned. Because of their differences, it seems safe to assume Civ will not use the Steam browser, and as I see no reason to have both browsers in the game, I think it will not be be
Steam based

[azzaman333]

Originally Posted by The_J

I guess, your crystal ball tells you this?

What possible reason would Valve have for banning someone for such a reason?

Originally Posted by PieceOfMind

Back on the point,
It would not be hard for Steam to fix their subscriber agreement so that it does not have a ridiculously open "negatively affect enjoyment of steam by other subscribers" clause, or even for them to implement a compulsory warning before being able to ban. Even cheaters IMO do not necessarily deserve being banned entirely. If they're cheating in MP, sure, ban them from MP, but do they get prevented from playing SP as well?
Cheaters are still paying customers (probably).

(EDIT... With a bit of reading, I think it's the case that banned "cheaters" can still play single player so my last question there is answered for me.).

I'm not sure if they can still play single player, but they can definitely play games that don't use the same engine. So if you get banned in CoDMW2, you won't be banned in Counter Strike, and vice versa.

[Modiga-Disabled]

Originally Posted by The_J

There's a big chance, that there's just a system, in which you'll get banned, when enough people have complained about you, and then you have to argue with Valve to get your account back.

There isn't.

[Modiga-Disabled]

Originally Posted by cspyr0

This is how Valve operates - I know from reading about it a lot on their forums. I'm not going to say it's impossible that an innocent could get banned, because it is possible. Then again it's also possible that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster had a love child that will one day be our messiah.

That's not how it works. What cspyr0 said isn't accurate either. Valve don't ban people for griefing in-game. They don't disable Steam accounts for cheating either. A distinction must be made between accounts being disabled and being VAC-banned.

If an account is disabled access to it is lost completely. It requires something like suspected credit card fraud to trigger your account to be disabled.

A VAC ban is a triggered by Valve's anti-cheat. VAC bans are triggered when cheats are detected. There is no way of reporting somebody so that they'll be VAC banned. The system is purely automated. If you do get VAC banned, you still have access to your account and all your games. The only restriction is you will not be allowed to play on multiplayer servers that are VAC-secured and are running a game on the same engine as the game you got banned in.

[The_J]

Originally Posted by azzaman333

What possible reason would Valve have for banning someone for such a reason?

Good question.
Easiest thing: Could be an accident.

(yes, i can't really see, why they should do it, but it doesn't negate the option that they can)

Originally Posted by Modiga-Disabled

There isn't.

You're working for Valve, i guess?

[Modiga-Disabled]

Originally Posted by The_J

Good question.
Easiest thing: Could be an accident.

(yes, i can't really see, why they should do it, but it doesn't negate the option that they can)



You're working for Valve, i guess?

I am not employed by Valve, but I do moderate their forum.

[Intellectus]

Originally Posted by Tamed

This game is already confirmed for a Steam release, as you can find it: http://store.steampowered.com/app/50100/ <- Right there.

Now please stop arguing. Please just let this thread end or lock it or something, Steam gamers will enjoy ease of access and paranoid\old fashioned\collection-based\single-player oriented (not insulting, just truth bearing) gamers will enjoy their discs. Everyone is happy.

It's already been floating around that this game will support Steamworks, so that's even better for people who aren't scared of Valve. Steamworks is a service that allows you to hop into games using your Steam friends list and view what your buddies are doing, it's honestly a great system and pretty much essential for any modern multiplayer game.

What is paranoid about going to the store and buying the game? Personally, I have used steam twice(recently) and I find it kind of boring. I know you get the ease of use but that doesn't mean that the people who go to the store are "old-fashioned". Human beings always got to labeling someone else for doing something different (I do it alot myself).

[azzaman333]

Originally Posted by The_J

Good question.
Easiest thing: Could be an accident.

(yes, i can't really see, why they should do it, but it doesn't negate the option that they can)



You're working for Valve, i guess?

There is no way you can accidentally be banned.

[DPyro]

Since this thread keeps growing and I'm not about to read 10 pages of posts, here is some information that hopefully alays your fears:

I have Steam and a lot of games purchased for it (thanks to ridiculously low price game packs where you get a publisher's entire catalog for $40). I also have Civ IV purchased on Steam, so I could finally own a legal copy and support Firaxis. Here are some facts:

• Games that are integrated with Steam require Steam to be fully functional. I have Team Fortress 2, which is a game created and produced by Valve. You have to have Steam running to get the usual multiplayer functionality (alternate weapons, achievements, joining on friends, etc..) However, you can actually run the game WITHOUT Steam; I have an old version of TF2 to play back old demo recordings, and it does not need Steam for offline use.
• Some games are created entirely without Steam integration that may later be sold on Steam. A game like Civ IV. When you download a game from Steam, it doesn't download the install files, it downloads what the game would look like after its already installed. I can double-click on Civ IV to get my Ghandi on with the Steam overlay (useful for me because of TF2). But I could also go to "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization iv beyond the sword", double-click the exe, and I again get Civ IV (minus the Steam overlay). In fact, I could copy that entire folder to a flash drive, walk up to another computer, and play the game no problem, Steam or no Steam. All Steam does in this case is download the files and make a shortcut for you. If there is no Steam integration in the game, like Civ IV, you get the EXACT SAME files you would get if you bought a boxed copy and installed it. There is no VAC, no need to have internet access, no shenanigans. You're playing the exact same game with the exact same code as someone with a boxed copy.
• Steam does have an offline mode, but it can be a little wonky for games that use Steam.

[The_J]

Originally Posted by Modiga-Disabled

I am not employed by Valve, but I do moderate their forum.

So you also don't know it for sure.

Originally Posted by azzaman333

There is no way you can accidentally be banned.

There's always a way, that something can happen by accident.
Malfunctions of the software can happen everytime.

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Human Moderators > Software Moderators

Just watch the Matrix

[Modiga-Disabled]

Originally Posted by The_J

So you also don't know it for sure.

I think I have a better insight into their policy than you appear to, where you use words like "There's a big chance" to describe things you are clearly don't have any insight in and is clearly your own baseless guessing.

[azzaman333]

Originally Posted by The_J

There's always a way, that something can happen by accident.
Malfunctions of the software can happen everytime.

No they can't.

[Berba]

I read somewhere that Civ 5 will be steam based? Am I right? Hope it's optional though

[perkb]

I pray that the crappy useless steam will be purely optional. the little i use it for TF2, i get ridiculous speeds, 150 kbs on good days whit average at 75 kbs, and that is whit the closest server, the bloody program disconnects randomly for no reason.

Give me the good old boxed version whit cd not requiring steam.

(sidenote, Impulse download speeds average at 725kbs for me, same whit other higspeed DLs, so not machine/isp based trubble)