Balancing Leader Traits

Xyth

History Rewritten
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Jul 14, 2004
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Well after a ton of reading threads about leader traits and hunting for ideas I've put together a list of traits that I'd like to use in my mod. Overall I'm pretty happy with the theme and concept of most and I've strived to use the default Charismatic and Philosophical as the balancing point.

I understand that these might not be everyone's cup of tea but I would hugely appreciate comments on any potential balance, synergy or AI issues people might spot. I hardly ever play multiplayer so chances are there'll need to be some tweaking to make the traits fairer there.



AGGRESSIVE
• 100% extra gold from Pillaging
• Free Promotion (Combat I) for Melee, Gunpowder units
• Double production speed of Barracks, Colosseum

Designed for the leader/player that likes to conquer and plunder. Added the pillaging bonus as I felt the trait needed at some minor form of economic return. Similarly I felt the Colosseum fit well here, being all about sport and blood.


CHARISMATIC
• +1 happiness per city
• 25% less experience required for Unit Promotions
• +1 happiness from Monument, Broadcast Tower

Unchanged as I think it was a well balanced, albeit strong trait. I think that happiness is quite a powerful stat, especially in the early game so there are other traits that provide it also, though not straight away.


CREATIVE
• +2 culture per city
• 25% World Wonder production
• Double production speed of Theatre

I liked Munch's idea that it is cultural civilizations rather than industrious ones that tend to build wonders. I changed it to World Wonders only and lowered it to 25% to hopefully reduce synergy issues with Industrious and Philosophical.


DIPLOMATIC
• Stronger Vassals
• +2 espionage per city
• +20% commerce from Trade Routes

Stronger Vassals is from Tsentom1's Influential trait and it gives Vassals some gold and combat experience at the start of each term. My concept for this trait was a leader that is well informed (espionage bonus) and an excellent negotiator (better returns on trade routes).


ENTERPRISING
• +1 Trade Route in every city
• +2 movement for Naval Units
• Double production speed of Market, Custom House

Designed with the Phoenicians and Dutch in mind. Sort of a combination of various seafaring/commercial/mercantile traits I've seen on these forums. I'm not sure if it should give a +1 or +2 movement increase, advice appreciated.


EXPANSIVE
• +1 food per city
• 50% faster production of Settler
• Double production speed of Harbour

The +1 food is on the central city tile meaning an expansive civ has a better shot at creating a viable city in less hospitable terrain. I removed the Granary from this because it made it all about whipping rather than expanding.


FINANCIAL
• +1 commerce per city
• +10% gold
• Double production speed of Bank

The default was just too powerful and too versatile. I've kept a smaller commerce bonus (the +1 is on the central city tile only) and brought back the bank production speed. The rest of the trait is all about gold as (IMO) it should be. However I'm uncertain what the exact percentage should be to keep this in balance.


HUMANE
• 100% longer Golden Ages
• +2 health per city
• +1 happiness from Aqueduct, Hospital

For leaders that value their citizens and want to keep them happy and healthy. The Golden Age bonus I hope represents the citizens showing their appreciation in return.


IMPERIALIST
• 100% extra Great Generals emergence
• Double production speed of Jail
• +1 happiness from Barracks

One for the empire builders, like Rome. I removed the Settler bonus as that made this trait all about rapid expansion rather than annexing your neighbours and keeping them in line via organized military presence.


INDUSTRIOUS
• +1 production per city
• 50% faster production of Workers, Workboats
• Double production speed of Forge

For leaders that like to build all sorts of stuff, not just Wonders. I felt that the worker bonus fit really well here thematically. Double production of Factories would theoretically fit here too but I suspect that might be just too many production bonuses. The +1 production is on the central city tile only.


JUDICIAL
• No Anarchy
• 25% faster National Wonder production
• +1 happiness from Courthouse

I wanted to create a trait that would be appropriate for the great lawmakers of history like Hammurabi and Justinian. I always found it crazy that Spiritual civs could have no anarchy whatsoever when made to change state religion and I think that this is a much better fit for that bonus.


ORGANIZED
• 50% less Civic upkeep
• Double production speed of Library, Courthouse, Factory

Haven't changed this much. Library makes much more sense thematically (record keeping) than a lighthouse did. I always felt that this trait was great midgame but weak at the start and the end. Library helps with the start and I've kept Factory to help with the late game though I don't think it fits that well thematically.


PHILOSOPHICAL
• 100% extra Great People birth rate
• Double production speed of University

Didn't feel the need to mess with this. Hopefully with the changes to Wonder producing traits (Creative and Judicial) those combinations won't be too overpowered to use anymore.


PROTECTIVE
• Free Promotion (Drill I, Garrison I) for Archery, Gunpowder units
• 50% extra Great Generals emergence inside Cultural Borders
• +1 happiness from Walls, Castle

Based this pretty closely on Munch's ideas. Still a fairly situational trait but hopefully the happiness bonuses make it stronger and more viable.


SPIRITUAL
• +1 culture for each Religion in a city
• Free Promotion (Medic 1) for Missionaries
• Double production speed of Temple

This is probably the trait I'm least pleased with. The culture bonus means that more religions in a city are better, thus this half of the trait is thus quite 'enlightened' and tolerant. I've tried to balance this with the 'medic missionaries going to war to spur on the troops and convert the defeated heathen' thing. Ideas welcomed here.


TACTICAL
• 50% less gold to Upgrade Units
• Free Promotion (Flanking I) for Mounted, Naval units
• Double production speed of Stable, Drydock

A warmonger trait for the leaders that were also shrewd generals. Debating whether I should make this about Siege instead of Mounted and Naval units.
 
Right now I just had time to run through that, but there are some very good ideas among them!
I will come back later and try to help in if I can.
Balancing the traits correctly is more than hard though, especially with 16 traits...

Still, it would be very cool if you can make this decently balanced, 16 traits means 120 different traits combos for leaders ;)
 
Right now I just had time to run through that, but there are some very good ideas among them!
I will come back later and try to help in if I can.
Balancing the traits correctly is more than hard though, especially with 16 traits...

Still, it would be very cool if you can make this decently balanced, 16 traits means 120 different traits combos for leaders ;)

I was actually trying for 18 originally. I cut Nationalistic because it crossed over too much with Diplomatic and Judicial. I also cut Scientific because I think it's just all too easy for research bonuses to get out of hand and severely unbalance the game. 120 is such a nice tidy number too :)

They are going to be tricky to balance perfectly but hopefully it's just a case of tweaking the numbers a bit.
 
I also cut Scientific because I think it's just all too easy for research bonuses to get out of hand and severely unbalance the game.
It's also all too easy for growth curve bonuses to get out of hand and seriously unbalance the game. Bonus food at size 1 is very, very powerful, and both your expansive and diplomatic traits grant this.
 
The diplomatic trait seems overpowered. A 25 percent bonus to food is going to allow 25 percent larger cities, in other words as much as six or seven more.
 
It's also all too easy for growth curve bonuses to get out of hand and seriously unbalance the game. Bonus food at size 1 is very, very powerful, and both your expansive and diplomatic traits grant this.

Mmm I considered this. The difference is that science is continually good for the entire length of the game whereas growth from food is effectively slowed by upkeep, unhappiness and unhealthiness. This is why I preferred to put the food bonus on the central city tile only rather than on worked tile yields (a la default Financial). This way, while it's a growth and slight citysize advantage it's not an exponential advantage. I could see it being a possible problem with a city spam strategy; I could reduce the food bonus of Expansive to +1 to counter this a bit. Or I could drop it and just give it the double production Granary back but I dislike that idea because that encourages abuse of the whip and is probably nearly as much a bonus to growth anyway.

(By the way I used the same logic with the commerce bonus of Financial and the production bonus of Industrious. Do you think these could be issues too?)

I don't see how there is a growth problem with Diplomatic though. A city needs to have at least one active trade route yielding 4 commerce (or 4 trade routes) before it would see a food bonus from the trait. This is pretty unlikely to happen early in the game. Or is there something I'm overlooking here?

Thanks very much for your input. Don't be afraid to tell me if my logic is wrong! :)

The diplomatic trait seems overpowered. A 25 percent bonus to food is going to allow 25 percent larger cities, in other words as much as six or seven more.

It's worded a bit confusingly (BTS actually words it this way by default). What it actually means is that for every 4 commerce you get from trade routes you get 1 extra food as well. Cities start with only 1 trade route too (Enterprising leaders get 2) so it would be some way into the game before a city sees any extra food at all. Trade routes don't give food (or production) by default, just commerce. It has no effect at all on food from worked tiles.

If I can find where to change this text in game I'll try reword it better. Reworded it in the first post for now.
 
Well Anyway, when you get this finished, could I use it in my foundation mod?
 
Well Anyway, when you get this finished, could I use it in my foundation mod?

Certainly! I was just going to use it in my own mod but if people are interested I'll happily package it up as a mod component. So far I have everything working except the Medic promotion for Missionaries, which I might replace.
 
Cool, thanks. If you want you can join my as of yet 1 man mod team.
 
So, how would I abuse those food bonus traits?

For Expansive, you barely even need to try. Your first city (working some 3-food unimproved food bonus tile) starts with 5 bonus food instead of 3, which means it gets to size 2 and 3 much faster, and produces the first workers and settlers much faster. That puts you many turns ahead in everything in the early game. Later on, it helps your new cities grow up to be major contributors faster. You get that exponential boost anyway- because growth in Civ is already exponential, and getting started earlier is huge.

The food and hammers from trade is a late-starting bonus, and much less powerful for it. Still, that's what makes the Red Syndicate in Final Frontier so ridiculous; once the trade network is going, you can bring your new cities up to speed very quickly.
Now, to abuse it... Try an archipelago map. Get the Great Lighthouse and Currency. Found cities all over. Every city gets four overseas trade routes, each of which produce 2 commerce minimum. 2 food and 2 hammers per (coastal, and they all are) city, helping them build their initial Granaries and Lighthouses. Your core cities are growing big by now, and starting to get the population-based higher yields, or the foreign bonuses- which is even more growth and production for them. Since archipelago cities are chronically short on production, you're now massively outproducing everyone, and win shortly.

Yes, maybe this sort of trait can be balanced. It still needs lots of testing.
 
Cool, thanks. If you want you can join my as of yet 1 man mod team.

Thanks for the offer but I'm already involved in several projects keeping me busy.

For Expansive, you barely even need to try. Your first city (working some 3-food unimproved food bonus tile) starts with 5 bonus food instead of 3, which means it gets to size 2 and 3 much faster, and produces the first workers and settlers much faster. That puts you many turns ahead in everything in the early game. Later on, it helps your new cities grow up to be major contributors faster. You get that exponential boost anyway- because growth in Civ is already exponential, and getting started earlier is huge.

I do see your point. Do you think though that even +1 food on the central city tile would still be too much? It will still help a city get to size 2 and 3 quicker for sure but by the time everyone has a granary the difference would be less noticeable. I guess what it comes down to is does +1 food when founding a city plus cheaper settlers excessively exceed the combined bonus of a quicker granary and cheaper workers as in the standard trait?

The Expansive trait is mostly about quicker expansion, and the default version is generally considered to be a 'medium' trait, not as good as Cha/Phi/Fin but not as bad as Imp/Pro. Given Cha and Phi are the level I'm hoping to obtain for all traits I do want it to be stronger than the default version - just not the new Financial :)

The food and hammers from trade is a late-starting bonus, and much less powerful for it. Still, that's what makes the Red Syndicate in Final Frontier so ridiculous; once the trade network is going, you can bring your new cities up to speed very quickly.
Now, to abuse it... Try an archipelago map. Get the Great Lighthouse and Currency. Found cities all over. Every city gets four overseas trade routes, each of which produce 2 commerce minimum. 2 food and 2 hammers per (coastal, and they all are) city, helping them build their initial Granaries and Lighthouses. Your core cities are growing big by now, and starting to get the population-based higher yields, or the foreign bonuses- which is even more growth and production for them. Since archipelago cities are chronically short on production, you're now massively outproducing everyone, and win shortly.

This trait has a ton of flexibility in it's design. I've just chosen the 25% figure as a starting point for testing. I can also change it to food, production, commerce or any combination thereof; indeed I originally had it as a commerce bonus but thought i'd try something different. Good point about archipelago maps, I suspect I will drop the food bonus and keep the production one - or maybe revert to just commerce.

Yes, maybe this sort of trait can be balanced. It still needs lots of testing.

It sure does which is why I posted it here for feedback. Thanks for all this, it really helps to get another perspective on it. Much to ponder.
 
Actually i like all these actual effects of your new leaders traits...
 
Well I will do a serious reevaluation of Diplomatic and Expansive due to the potentialgrowth issue. Does anyone see any problems with any of the other traits? In particular:

- Do any seem noticeably less powerful than the others?
- Is the production bonus of Industrious too strong?
- Is +2 naval movement of Enterprising too advantageous and better as +1?
- Is the synergy between Philosophical and the wonder building traits reasonable now?
- Any doable ideas for improving Spiritual?
 
the +2 naval movement could be badly abused on archiapelago maps. Perhaps just have longer vision?

The imperial trait seems a little weak

For spiritual how about different bonuses based on your religion civic: e.g. paganism=1/4 happiness from each forest worked, organized religion= 2x state religion happiness
 
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure financial just got more unbalanced at least early game. Financial works so that you get +1 on tiles with +2 or more gold, which helps, a LOT, but the problem is now they will get extra gold in the beginning helping their research by a lot. I haven't exactly played with it yet, but I know that if I start near a gold resource, I do research a lot quicker. I'm pretty sure this would make it so that any financial guys would be far and ahead best at research early game, which if you think about it historically, does make some sense (Egypt, Britain, Spain, etc.), but everyone would lag severely behind... now if they started making more cities, you could def. hurt a lot of civs.
 
I've done some playtesting and I've lowered the yield bonus on the city tile to +1 for Expansive, Financial and Industrious. +2 was indeed too much of an advantage at the start. +1 worked quite well in my testing; it was a small and steady boost for each city but not enough to give a large advantage. I think with +1 they give a similar level of advantage to Creative's +2 culture which is what I was aiming for.

Diplomatic's trade route yield bonus was definitely too strong. I've changed it to 20% extra commerce from trade routes. I was hoping to change it to Espionage and/or Gold instead but that's not possible in XML and is currently beyond my limited Python ability.

A few people have requested trying these out so once I'm sure I've not made any errors I'll package it up.
 
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