US Army WWI

[Wolf Rider]

I heard or read somewhere that the US had a really small and insignificant army at the beginning of WWI. Is this true? Thanks.

[Ajidica]

Please at least use Wikipedia to check your guesses. To answer your question, the US had a decently large army although not on the size of Europe simply because we didn't play as large a part in the arms race and america didn't need a huge army to defend itself. America is protected by two huge oceans from Europe.

[Louis XXIV]

The US army was under-equipped and had to rely on French guns when they arrived in Europe. But there was also a general draft, so it wasn't that small. I think I saw 2 million men, but I can't vouch for the accuracy of that number.

[LightSpectra]

Nobody measures military strength by standing armies past the 19th century. That would be pointless.

[Louis XXIV]

I agree, but combat readiness could be a factor and the American Expeditionary Force simply wasn't when war was declared.

[LightSpectra]

No country was insane enough to purposefully go to war with the U.S., so the relevance of this matter eludes me. The only reason they'd need to mobilize a large army would be for a European expedition, which they could take their sweet time to do.

[ParkCungHee]

Originally Posted by Louis XXIV

I agree, but combat readiness could be a factor and the American Expeditionary Force simply wasn't when war was declared.

Not really. We still had a large enough force to defeat any European invasion.

[bombshoo]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

No country was insane enough to purposefully go to war with the U.S., so the relevance of this matter eludes me. The only reason they'd need to mobilize a large army would be for a European expedition, which they could take their sweet time to do.

So Germany is no country? Germany very well knew that what they were doing (sinking ships, talking to Mexico about invasion) could lead to war, they simply knew the the United States would take forever to mobilize.

There certainly was a feeling of urgency to mobilize in the U.S. once war was declared as well. France was in serious danger and hence why the decision to send U.S. forces not fully equipped was made.

To answer the OP's question, yes the U.S. military was very small (especially for our size which was around 95 million people) at about 98,000 men in 1914 and up to around 140,000 by the middle of Wilson's first term. (for comparison, Germany, a country of around 70 million people had a standing army of 1.75 million men during this time). The peacetime draft instituted by Wilson led to about 24 million men registering and we managed to get up to roughly 4 million men during the war, with about half of these serving overseas.

[LightSpectra]

Originally Posted by bombshoo

So Germany is no country? Germany very well knew that what they were doing (sinking ships, talking to Mexico about invasion) could lead to war, they simply knew the the United States would take forever to mobilize.

Considering the U.S. was already de facto allied with the Entente at this point, and there's no chance that Germany would ever invade the U.S. in the first place...

[bombshoo]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

Considering the U.S. was already de facto allied with the Entente at this point, and there's no chance that Germany would ever invade the U.S. in the first place...

Though it was certainly Germany's own aggressive policies that partially pushed Americans to be so closely tied with the entente. While Germany may have not wanted war with the U.S., they still would have been considering that their submarine warfare policies (even before unrestricted submarine warfare) were antagonizing them. Germany seemed to be at least somewhat willing to risk war with the U.S. the whole time, they just knew of America's limitations and were willing to take the risks.

[LightSpectra]

Originally Posted by bombshoo

Though it was certainly Germany's own aggressive policies that partially pushed Americans to be so closely tied with the entente. While Germany may have not wanted war with the U.S., they still would have been considering that their submarine warfare policies (even before unrestricted submarine warfare) were antagonizing the U.S.

It was Woodrow Wilson's opinions that pushed the U.S. to be closely tied with the Entente. The German High Command did what it thought was necessary to end the war, which includes attempting to cut off supplies to their enemy; hence the Lusitania incident was brought on to America by consequence.

[bombshoo]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

It was Woodrow Wilson's opinions that pushed the U.S. to be closely tied with the Entente. The German High Command did what it thought was necessary to end the war, which includes attempting to cut off supplies to their enemy; hence the Lusitania incident was brought on to America by consequence.

Wilson started out the war fairly neutral (with a British lean, but a desire to stay out). He made many overtures to both sides to negotiate a peace and pre-war Britain and France feared an American-German alliance enormously. It was incidents such as the Lusitania, the sabotage of the Black Tom and the Kings Island explosion that were what really started turning opinion against Germany (though admittedly the Anglo-American population, like Wilson, did support Britain somewhat). Germany wanted to win the war and was willing to commit war-like acts upon the United States, probably hoping the U.S. would stay passive, but over all not caring if war was declared. You could certainly say Germany's policies even before the unrestricted submarine warfare were undeniably putting it on the path to war with the U.S.

[LightSpectra]

Obviously Germany was worried about a war with America, since they'd stand absolutely no hope of defeating both the British and American navies. There was no illusion that Wilson had any intention of staying neutral in the war, so it was rather evident that the U.S. was de facto a member of the Allies after the presidential election of 1916. Germany's only possible gamble was to knock Russia out of the war, then use the forces from the Eastern Front to capture Paris as a bargaining chip for a negotiated peace. It failed.

Honestly, the German High Command was well aware that total victory in the war was impossible after the Schlieffen Plan failed and the U.K. entered the war. Everything after 1914 was a gigantic gamble for a negotiated peace.

[bombshoo]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

Obviously Germany was worried about a war with America, since they'd stand absolutely no hope of defeating both the British and American navies. There was no illusion that Wilson had any intention of staying neutral in the war, so it was rather evident that the U.S. was de facto a member of the Allies after the presidential election of 1916.

Of course they were worried about it, but my point being you stated that a country would have had to have been insane to provoke the United States. Germany was certainly engaging in acts that provoked the United States, even before 1916 (when I'll admit the Wilson administration's neutrality had all but disappeared). Unrestricted submarine warfare was first declared in early 1915, which was worrisome to neutral powers on its own, while a few smaller incidents and Germany's harsh rhetoric concerning Wilson's offers of mediating peace were all the more making them seem hyper-aggressive.

[Bugfatty300]

That's a true fact OP. Mostly because the US didn't need a large army at the time.

The US Army prior to fighting in WWI was geared to fighting smaller Latin American countries and insurgencies and it had always been the practice of the US to keep its army small during peace time.

When the US did go to war with someone and needed to rapidly expand its forces the US government would simply call up the states' militias and there was usually lots of willing volunteers.

[Masada]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

Obviously Germany was worried about a war with America, since they'd stand absolutely no hope of defeating both the British and American navies.

Why was that an issue. The Germans couldn't even hope to beat the British navy. It's whole strategy was predicated upon the belief that it could at least do enough damage, by sacrificing its fleet, to make a blockade infeasible.

[LightSpectra]

Originally Posted by Masada

Why was that an issue. The Germans couldn't even hope to beat the British navy. It's whole strategy was predicated upon the belief that it could at least do enough damage, by sacrificing its fleet, to make a blockade infeasible.

I agree, hence why the plan becomes more far-fetched when you add another Great Power to the equation. Nevertheless the maritime factor was not the only one in not desiring America to enter the war.

[Lord Baal]

Originally Posted by LightSpectra

Considering the U.S. was already de facto allied with the Entente at this point, and there's no chance that Germany would ever invade the U.S. in the first place...

Also considering that there's a school of thought which doubts that the Zimmerman Telegram was even a legitimate document...

[Louis XXIV]

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

Also considering that there's a school of thought which doubts that the Zimmerman Telegram was even a legitimate document...

Didn't Zimmerman admit that it was true?

[LightSpectra]

World War I-era history is not really my specialty, so I can't speak much about the legitimacy of the Zimmerman Telegram. I study medieval history, so my general standard for determining if something is real is by asking, "would its alleged author be stupid enough to compose this document?"

I'd like to think the German High Command wouldn't authorize such a ridiculous memo, but I'm sure there's better standards than that.