more power over vassal states

[glm94]

What really enrages me is that my Mongol colony is making 150 gold a turn and i can't take it because its not on the trade table. Your vassals sould have to put ALL there resources on the trade table, like the player does. Thats what I would like to see in the new civ or at least capulated states sould have to put everything on the trade table.

[the oob]

So you can take food out of the mouths of hungry Mongolian children? Shame on you Sir

[Impaler[WrG]]

Agreed taking the food from the mouths of Mongolian children is wasteful. I have a modest propose that we to eat the babies themselves, particularly if my Vassal is Irish. They would provide a bonus +1 food per City.

[Naokaukodem]

Originally Posted by glm94

What really enrages me is that my Mongol colony is making 150 gold a turn and i can't take it because its not on the trade table. Your vassals sould have to put ALL there resources on the trade table, like the player does. Thats what I would like to see in the new civ or at least capulated states sould have to put everything on the trade table.

There is so much to say back about Vassal States... So much that it becomes useless to say anything other than "scrap them".

[Suho1004]

I never really understood Vassal States. I accepted an offer once from another civilization to become my vassal, and it basically gut punched me in the wallet with no appreciable benefits.

[Chalks]

Originally Posted by Suho1004

I never really understood Vassal States. I accepted an offer once from another civilization to become my vassal, and it basically gut punched me in the wallet with no appreciable benefits.

Yeah, I don't really understand them either.

It's like asking you if you can't be bothered to conquer the civilization.

But really, I'm playing the game, so I probably can be bothered to do it. If I couldn't be bothered I'd probably just like, shut it down and go make a sandwich or something.

[Perfxion]

Vassals are great for a huge map conquest without the boring step of taking over EVERY city of each civ. Wipe a few cities off the map get them to become a vassal and go one to kill the the next civ. Helps win a conquest game by the end of the middle ages

[Ahovking]

i would love more power over my vassal states afterall they are all under my control they are nothing but slaves

[Chalks]

Originally Posted by Perfxion

Vassals are great for a huge map conquest without the boring step of taking over EVERY city of each civ. Wipe a few cities off the map get them to become a vassal and go one to kill the the next civ. Helps win a conquest game by the end of the middle ages

Surely a capitulation mechanism that allowed the AI to simply hand control of all their cities and units to you when they thought they were going to lose would handle this just as well, but with far more control.

[Ahriman]

They've talked about Puppet State mechanics for Civ5. So its entirely feasible that you may have much more control over your "vassals" than in Civ4.

[conception]

Right now I'm playing a game with LoR where I started on a huge map, with the barbarian civ mod enabled on a new world map. Playing with vassal states has allowed me to create the challenge for myself of a conquest victory of the entire map, which would be essentially impossible without vassal states. They allow you to have an overseas region on your side without having to incur the difficulty of maintaining or defending them.

I do think that vassal states could be put more under control, but thats entirely different than saying that they are useless. They've been integral to every game I've played since they've been introduced. It's a heck of a lot of fun to take on the baddest kid in the block, beat him into submission, and then groom him to do your bidding the rest of the game. You don't get the same type of control that you would get if you actually did control that region, but that isn't always practical for time purposes and maintenance purposes.

Also, to be honest, vassal states are a very realistic concept that even more modern-day conquerers like Hitler and Napoleon have had to use in order to "control" vast areas. Vassal states can be unreliable and don't always do what you want, even through coercion, but thats something that has to be dealt with because, in the end, its practically impossible to be 100 percent in control of a multitude of different regions at the same time. Civ actually doesn't do a great job of mimicking this, which is probably why some people don't see a need for them when if they want to conquer, they will just conquer it all. But mods like LoR and revolutions mirror this concept much more realistically, making vassal states not just a convenience, but a necessity when conquering large areas with different cultures.

[glm94]

Hey i'm fighting an expensive war on about 3 diffrent fronts I need all the money I can get and why should I have to drop my research rate when I have "slaves" to give me money.

[Naokaukodem]

Originally Posted by conception

Right now I'm playing a game with LoR where I started on a huge map, with the barbarian civ mod enabled on a new world map. Playing with vassal states has allowed me to create the challenge for myself of a conquest victory of the entire map, which would be essentially impossible without vassal states. They allow you to have an overseas region on your side without having to incur the difficulty of maintaining or defending them.

I do think that vassal states could be put more under control, but thats entirely different than saying that they are useless. They've been integral to every game I've played since they've been introduced. It's a heck of a lot of fun to take on the baddest kid in the block, beat him into submission, and then groom him to do your bidding the rest of the game. You don't get the same type of control that you would get if you actually did control that region, but that isn't always practical for time purposes and maintenance purposes.

Also, to be honest, vassal states are a very realistic concept that even more modern-day conquerers like Hitler and Napoleon have had to use in order to "control" vast areas. Vassal states can be unreliable and don't always do what you want, even through coercion, but thats something that has to be dealt with because, in the end, its practically impossible to be 100 percent in control of a multitude of different regions at the same time. Civ actually doesn't do a great job of mimicking this, which is probably why some people don't see a need for them when if they want to conquer, they will just conquer it all. But mods like LoR and revolutions mirror this concept much more realistically, making vassal states not just a convenience, but a necessity when conquering large areas with different cultures.

The problem with vassal states is that:

On one hand, the powerfull AIs will take the less powerfull ones, YOUR conquests, after only having took one only city of them.

On the other hand, you have to nearly destroy an AI civ in order to it vassalize to you.

That makes vassal states detestable.

[glm94]

Wait the AI can vassilize the player?

[Disgustipated]

not that I know of.

My only beef is that they are useless. As you have to beat them down so badly, their tech rate will be abysmal for the rest of the game. So asking them to research specific techs is useless. I've been playing with tech trading off lately anyways (to prepare for civ5). And with tech trading off, vassals become even more useless as you can't give them your military techs so they can defend themselves.

[Willem]

Originally Posted by glm94

Thats what I would like to see in the new civ or at least capulated states sould have to put everything on the trade table.

We don't even know whether there will be any vassals in Civ 5. It doesn't sound like there will be frankly.

[Willem]

Originally Posted by Disgustipated

As you have to beat them down so badly, their tech rate will be abysmal for the rest of the game.

You're not playing them right then. I've had them cave in after taking only a couple of their cities. Don't wait for them to make the offer, check your trade screen every turn once they start speaking to you again.

[grant2004]

Vassals can be useful in Civ IV, the maintainance penalty from having a vassal is less than the penaltys from having all of those extra cities in far flung locations.

I agree it would be a lot more fun if you could milk them for all they were worth, although this should eventually cause them to revolt and try to gain back their independence.

[Ddude97]

True, but in theory, you should be able to crack down on them and retain control, assuming you aren't in another war.

[dodgerphreak]

Originally Posted by Impaler[WrG]

Agreed taking the food from the mouths of Mongolian children is wasteful. I have a modest propose that we to eat the babies themselves, particularly if my Vassal is Irish. They would provide a bonus +1 food per City.

You're just a terrible person, sir...