Civ 5/Steam:Offline Mode Question

[PieceOfMind]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Try calculating how much monetary value (x) you give to your toilet every day.

I'm not agreeing with you, but that was pretty damn funny.

[White Elk]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Try calculating how much monetary value (x) you give to your toilet every day.

Originally Posted by PieceOfMind

I'm not agreeing with you, but that was pretty damn funny.

LoL. Actually that monetary value may become substantial in the coming years. People have been using it as an energy source for thousands of years. Now, in the search for alternate sources of energy, industrial nations are looking at a variety of methods to harvest human waste and convert it back to energy. We pay a great deal of money and energy to safely dispose of it. Turns out there are already potentially cost effective ways to convert toilet contributions into energy.

Cow waste is already being capitalized on to run internet server farms. The waste from one cow produces enough energy for 3 average households... per day. It's only a matter of time for our own toilet contributions to at least provide the energy required to power the infrastructure to take it away from our homes.

[PieceOfMind]

I suppose that makes sense. There is quite a bit of unburnt carbohydrate in our solid waste.

lol at off topicness.

[White Elk]

Originally Posted by PieceOfMind

I suppose that makes sense. There is quite a bit of unburnt carbohydrate in our solid waste.

lol at off topicness.

Yep lots of lipids to make use of.
And lots of little critters to do the work of it.
Chemicals in our bathing/beauty products complicate things though.

A little levity seemed warrented here.
Of course real discussion of this topic would have to occur in the OT forums.
/attempt to lighten the load

[The_Coyote]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Your personal monetary value of 'x', registering steam? You giving the monetary value of this imaginary 'x' to Valve? Try calculating how much monetary value (x) you give to your toilet every day. Damn those companies that produce toilets!
If you value your precious seconds so, why the hell are you even playing games? Stop it before the economy crumbles! Or even better, stop arguing pointless things and save that precious time for registering steam once.
These threads are getting crazier with the minute.

Trying hard to avoid getting the point Funny, i always had the felling that toilets can have a real high monetary value (x) - at least after a 5 - 10 hours in a traffic jam. Btw where i said that i value seconds that precious (i said nothing about that x, i said nothing about that the time is the reason to have a x - and as prove: i wouldn´t answer to your post if i would really take care of every second of my live), but again you simply apply your (mis-)understanding of my post as my opinion.

Btw i don´t play games which don´t produce a positive use (fun) for me, do you? And if you don´t see use (fun) in playing a game, why you spend money (monetary value (x) ) to buy it ?

And btw it´s nothing really bound to economics (so don´t fear "economy crumbles"), it´s called decision theory.

Edit: White Elk - perhaps you choose a better way to answer such an post

[Sterf]

I'd get to your point if there was a point to your argument.

All your previous post said was 'I don't want to register on steam, because it takes some time'. No need to obfuscate your point using lot's of xyz "calculations" and beep-boop-im-a-robot talk. Decision theory is not needed in this at all, it just further confuses it.

ps:'the economy crumbles' part was because of your apparently very high "monetary value "z" of a registration", which you said would shock me.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Chalks

Valve has said they can unlock any game for non-activation gameplay if it ever stops being supported.

This has probably been brought up already, but I'll ask it.

My laptop is a couple years old. I figure I'll probably replace it within another three years.

In the meantime, let's assume Steam goes defunct. I get my new computer, and I attempt to install Civ V. Steam is loaded onto my computer. It attempts to go online to contact the server. The server isn't there any more. It's unable to verify the program.

Will Civ V still install? Or is this giving Civ V a "planned obsolescence"? Because I don't buy many computer games any more (too many betas sold as if they were complete and never fully patched--I'm looking at you, MOO3 and MAX 2!), so the games I want to play, I want to play for a decade or more.

I am unwilling to leave myself at the mercy of a third party. I know, DirectX is a third-party product. But it doesn't require me to go online to connect to their website, which may someday no longer be there--it's on the disc, after all.

[Chalks]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

This has probably been brought up already, but I'll ask it.

My laptop is a couple years old. I figure I'll probably replace it within another three years.

In the meantime, let's assume Steam goes defunct. I get my new computer, and I attempt to install Civ V. Steam is loaded onto my computer. It attempts to go online to contact the server. The server isn't there any more. It's unable to verify the program.

Will Civ V still install? Or is this giving Civ V a "planned obsolescence"? Because I don't buy many computer games any more (too many betas sold as if they were complete and never fully patched--I'm looking at you, MOO3 and MAX 2!), so the games I want to play, I want to play for a decade or more.

I am unwilling to leave myself at the mercy of a third party. I know, DirectX is a third-party product. But it doesn't require me to go online to connect to their website, which may someday no longer be there--it's on the disc, after all.

As far as I am aware the way steam game installation from disks works is, you install the game then steam goes online to "unlock" the game.

What you'll do is install the game, and it'll say "unable to unlock due to not finding the steam servers ". Then you'll go to *whatever website* install a patch to the steam system and it'll unlock the game without verifying it against the servers.

I assume the patch would contain a whole bunch of server side verification codes for all the games in the steam library and alter the client to check that list if it can't find the steam server online.

As has been said before, the chance of the steam servers going offline at any point in the foreseeable future is extremely slim, and even then, the companies who released the games via Steam will be perfectly able to release a patch to detach their game from the platform if they needed to.

[Xiao Xiong]

The odds of steam going defunct in a way that leaves you unable to play your games is smaller than the odds that you will lose all your DVD's.

If Valve went bust presumably steam would be sold off to another company by bankruptcy court, and if not, Valve has already said they have prepared a patch that would disable steam's DRM, that they have it ready and waiting in the event it's ever needed.

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Xiao Xiong

....If Valve went bust presumably steam would be sold off to another company by bankruptcy court, and if not, Valve has already said they have prepared a patch that would disable steam's DRM, that they have it ready and waiting in the event it's ever needed.

Wrong:

Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement

....C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE STEAM SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).....

Read the whole thing for the full story as it's too lengthy to post here.

[White Elk]

Originally Posted by Chalks

As has been said before, the chance of the steam servers going offline at any point in the foreseeable future is extremely slim, and even then, the companies who released the games via Steam will be perfectly able to release a patch to detach their game from the platform if they needed to.

Who are you, some guru stock analyst? Or have you prescience to see the future? Even an educated and well founded projection is nothing more than a guess. I can see a wide variety of events that sees Steam defunct within a decade. Changing technology, increasing energy costs coupled with increasing server demands, increasing net congestion leading to loss of net neutrality (ISP's blocking bandwidth hogs such as Steam), competitors charging less and doing better, the DOJ schooling Steam for monopoly (Apples iTunes is dealing with this right now, Steams headed in a similar direction, even Gabe himself has commented on this), change of Steam leadership, rapid growth not being balanced with infrastructure investment, and more.

Originally Posted by Xiao Xiong

The odds of steam going defunct in a way that leaves you unable to play your games is smaller than the odds that you will lose all your DVD's.

If Valve went bust presumably steam would be sold off to another company by bankruptcy court, and if not, Valve has already said they have prepared a patch that would disable steam's DRM, that they have it ready and waiting in the event it's ever needed.

Based on my history, the odds of me losing my CD/DVD's are nil.
Based on the history of a thriving tech business suddenly going under...
the potential for Steam to go the way of the Dodo is actual.

Please provide a link from Steam that says they WILL provide a patch to disable a games DRM should the need arise. Don't bother with the links that say its potentially possible. That is no commitment. But even a commitment is not a contract with consequences. But it would be something. Even more would be a commitment by 2k as well as Firaxis. I might withdraw my concerns over product ownership of internet validated media if the publisher, developer, and distributer all commit to providing a fail safe allowing me to play the game independant of the decisions and finacial health of the distributer.

[Chalks]

Originally Posted by White Elk

Who are you, some guru stock analyst? Or have you prescience to see the future? Even an educated and well founded projection is nothing more than a guess. I can see a wide variety of events that sees Steam defunct within a decade. Changing technology, increasing energy costs coupled with increasing server demands, increasing net congestion leading to loss of net neutrality (ISP's blocking bandwidth hogs such as Steam), competitors charging less and doing better, the DOJ schooling Steam for monopoly (Apples iTunes is dealing with this right now, Steams headed in a similar direction, even Gabe himself has commented on this), change of Steam leadership, rapid growth not being balanced with infrastructure investment, and more.

Anything is possible. You're more likely to get hit by a car tomorrow. Let me know what you're going to do about that before you let us know what you're going to do to avoid the significantly less likely collapse of steam.

Tell me, do you always plan for every single possible eventuality? You must never leave the house.

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by Greybriar

Wrong:



Read the whole thing for the full story as it's too lengthy to post here.

A lack of guarantee does not mean that they wouldn't attempt to do so.

Please provide a link from Steam that says they WILL provide a patch to disable a games DRM should the need arise. Don't bother with the links that say its potentially possible. That is no commitment. But even a commitment is not a contract with consequences. But it would be something. Even more would be a commitment by 2k as well as Firaxis. I might withdraw my concerns over product ownership of internet validated media if the publisher, developer, and distributer all commit to providing a fail safe allowing me to play the game independant of the decisions and finacial health of the distributer.

There is no guarantees, but I'm sure there's a quote somewhere of a Valve employee stating that should they go under they will patch the drm out of it, or something along those lines.

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

A lack of guarantee does not mean that they wouldn't attempt to do so.



There is no guarantees, but I'm sure there's a quote somewhere of a Valve employee stating that should they go under they will patch the drm out of it, or something along those lines.

The Steam Subscriber Agreement includes language that runs directly counter to what you claim MIGHT happen.

[Sterf]

There was a quote from a Valve employee some years ago, but it seems it has been purged in their forums due to age.

Anyway, when they go bankrupt which is highly unlikely since they're damn successful, everyone will be tripping over eachother trying to buy it over. Also if you mean in 10-15 years or so, by then it'll be trivial to run them on an emulator in your organic computer.

Now, let's go back to asking why it still pings in offline-modus, then we'll get to the EULA once more, after that that registering is hard, and then we can discuss this once more. Tempo, people!

[Chalks]

Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%...System_failure

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Sterf

There was a quote from a Valve employee some years ago, but it seems it has been purged in their forums due to age.

Anyway, when they go bankrupt which is highly unlikely since they're damn successful, everyone will be tripping over eachother trying to buy it over. Also if you mean in 15 years or so, by then it'll be trivial to run them on an emulator in your organic computer.

Now, let's go back to asking why it still connects in offline-modus, then we'll get to the EULA once more, after that that registering is hard, and then we can discuss this once more. Tempo, people!

Hearsay, opinion, unsubstantiated gossip, etc., mean absolutely nothing. I provided a reliable source, the Steam Subscriber Agreement. You furnished nothing but empty words.

[Willem]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Anyway, when they go bankrupt which is highly unlikely since they're damn successful, everyone will be tripping over eachother trying to buy it over.

They don't have to go bankrupt, they could be bought out by another company to have the same effect for Civ players. It may no go so well for 2K if EA decided to acquire Steam, which certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility. The hostility between those two companies might cause all sorts of disruptions to Civ users.

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Chalks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%...System_failure

Do you honestly feel that anyone with any intelligence would place more trust in an article in Wikipedia than in a Subscriber Agreement issued by Steam?

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by Greybriar

Hearsay, opinion, unsubstantiated gossip, etc., mean absolutely nothing. I provided a reliable source, the Steam Subscriber Agreement. You furnished nothing but empty words.

Damn, you got me, ok, the EULA doesn't state anything about this hypothetical bankruptcy (like any EULA ever mentions anything about their own bankruptcy). Which company do you know that talk about their own demise in the EULA? What kind of demand is that?

What I don't understand is since you are pretty determined to not ever buy it due to steam, why you keep arguing these same points over and over? There's never going to be something in the EULA about their bankruptcy, and that's apparently the only source you'll trust. Not even the CEO of Valve (email him here if you want your answer out of the horse's mouth). So don't buy it then?

Glad to hear though that hearsay, opinion, unsubstantiated gossip, etc., mean absolutely nothing. I agree with that, and this thread is full of them.