Civ 5/Steam:Offline Mode Question

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by isndl

If it's backed up on your hard drive, wouldn't it already constitute being already installed? Even if it's an external drive, you can play straight off of it.

When you make a backup it's compressed in size and has an installer.

Originally Posted by isndl

Nobody knows what will happen in the future with any certainty.

Here's an example scenario: Gabe Newell dies of a heart attack, and Valve is sold off. Ubisoft purchases it, proceeds to run Steam straight into the ground, people leave in droves and eventually Ubisoft kills Steam because it's no longer profitable.

All of that could happen in a span of five years, perhaps even less. And it's only one of a myriad of ways in which Steam shuts down; other scenarios might take longer, but the end result is the same. And what if Steam doesn't shut down, but simply became so much of a nuisance that you don't want to use it? Not even their promise to unlock all your games applies anymore, since Steam is still alive.

You might be willing to accept the risk of losing access to your games, but that doesn't hold true for everyone. Losing one game is unfortunate, two or three regrettable, but we're talking about accounts that may have hundreds of games; what's the value of that? Thousands of dollars' worth of goods, ready to disappear at a moment's notice. Are you willing to accept the risk of losing all that money, plus more for the games you have to repurchase? Not everyone can afford to do so.

Ok, here's another equally valid scenario: Gabe Newell gets a heart attack, but at the last moment is saved by god. God says "The ways of your people is not in compliance with the original thought that started the universe. I shall now inject the sacred fluid into your brain that shall guide your people through these troubled times". Gabe, recovering from this religious epiphany but in no way hindered because of this sacred euphoria, goes straight to work with his new super skills and has all the ideas for a perfect utopia completely clear in his mind. However, it involves making super machines that will put the majority of humankind out of work.

With every machine created by Super Gabe thousands of people lose their jobs to the machine. First he created the machines that would take over simple jobs of servants by replacing cleaning people with automatic cleaning robots. Next are the jobs that need real skill like tree-cutting, metalwork and any form of electronics construction for example.

Any sort of business that creates any sort of service is soon taken over by the machine overlords too and people soon forget there was ever any official function where you didn't have to punch your punchcard to get any service, or cab drivers that were not automated machines but real people that you could talk to even if they didn't speak your language fluently.

A hundred years later, everybody is out of work because of the machines that have taken over all the work. Noone has any right to complain though, say the elite machine repairmen appointed by Gabe Newell, because everyone get's their appointed house and possessions in a quantity that is calculated by the Super Machine named GABE001.

What the GABE001 computer fails to predict though, is that with losing their jobs humans have lost their identity and try hard to fall out of line just to reclaim some identity the faceless machines have taken from them. Small groups of revolutionaries start to form, and Super Gabe, dressed in silkwhite sheets who fall ever so gently on his triple gut, recruits in the eager-for-work masses an anti-revolutionary army to fight the heathen machine haters. However, the people forming this army are so used to being useless by this time that any diversion that could make them of any help completely distracts them. So the rebels just ask for a salisbury steak (well done), or tell the armed forces that their computer seems to work so much slower these days, resulting in hundreds of army personnel trying to turn a computer on and off again for hours.

In the meantime, the rebels with their ancient skills they learned through secret sessions throughout the ages sabotage the machines that they think will mark the end of human individuality.
The machines broken, Gabe Newell is locked inside a (very large) box with a seal that will magically be broken in a thousand years, for when there should be a sequel to the story.

Meanwhile, everyone depends on the heroes that rid the machine shackles of mankind to further their quality of life by non-perfect but oh so human craftmanship and everyone is happy till a generation later everyone forgets.

The point of the story is twofold:
-Throughout all this, everyone could play games through Steam
-Stupid hypothetical future stories never helped anyone with anything, so stop it

[Chalks]

Originally Posted by Greybriar

I don't know and I don't care.

Yep, that says it all really.

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Chalks

Yep, that says it all really.

If you can't even accurately quote someone, why don't you just pack it in and stay home.

[Sterf]

Greybriar:
You said that the hypothetical scenario of steam's demise should be included in their EULA, since you were cleary offended that it wasn't. Do you think that is normal procedure for any business, to include their bankruptcy scenario's in their EULA? (fourth time, good time)

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Greybriar:
You said that the hypothetical scenario of steam's demise should be included in their EULA, since you were cleary offended that it wasn't. Do you think that is normal procedure for any business, to include their bankruptcy scenario's in their EULA? (fourth time, good time)

I said nothing of the kind.

[Senethro]

Ugh, I hate it when people tank with their evasion skill.

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by Greybriar

I said nothing of the kind.

OK, fine.
Only statements recorded in the EULA you will consider thrustworthy or worthy of your gaze upon it. That is exactly what you said. Since then you clearly insinuated that since the hypothetical demise of Steam wasn't included in the EULA, there wasn't any confirmation of what would happen in certain doom-scenario's regarding Steam. Clearly this means that you expect any business you will associate with are those that do exactly that. Who are these businesses?

[Greybriar]

Originally Posted by Sterf

OK, fine.
Only statements recorded in the EULA you will consider thrustworthy or worthy of your gaze upon it. That is exactly what you said. Since then you clearly insinuated that since the hypothetical demise of Steam wasn't included in the EULA, there wasn't any confirmation of what would happen in certain doom-scenario's regarding Steam. Clearly this means that you expect any business you will associate with are those that do exactly that. Who are these businesses?

Are you feeling okay? Because you certainly botched that one.

I am tired of your little game, whatever it may be. Cya later. Maybe.

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by Greybriar

Are you feeling okay? Because you certainly botched that one.

I am tired of your little game, whatever it may be. Cya later. Maybe.

You certainly uphold the title of dodger of simple questions. Cya. Maybe. I'll laugh my heart out when I'll see you playing the game though. Can't wait till september, damn.

[The_J]

Originally Posted by Sterf

Third time:
Do you think the consequences of a company's bankruptcy is something that normally is included in a EULA? Do you think it's right to see any speculation on this hypothetical scenario as truth because of it's not being written in the EULA?

If an already bought product of the company will not work anymore when it goes bancrupt, then i would expect something like that.
That you don't, makes you naive.

Originally Posted by Chalks

You play the game with steam.
But what if steam vanishes? You can still play in offline mode
But what if I uninstalled the game? You'll get an unlock patch from either steam or 2k so you can install without verification
But what if I don't have a physical copy? You can back the game up to dvds using the interface
But what if I don't do this? You can just grab a copy of a friend's backup, or get a friend to back up their copy and give it to you
But what if I don't know anyone who have a backup? 2k will probably provide a download location should steam distribution fail
But what if they don't? You can probably acquire a copy of the game online
But what if I refuse to do that?

Could you maybe compare this to a game where you have a DVD and no steam ?

Originally Posted by Sterf

-Stupid hypothetical future stories never helped anyone with anything, so stop it

The other example was completly reasonable.
Your example is a completle hyperbole (never thought i would say something like that ).

[isndl]

Originally Posted by Chalks

So back up your games in case of a games industry apocalypse? There's a whole backup system for making copies of your steam games in the client.

I'm not sure what you want me to say, there are a whole bunch of different options available to you if something that's really unlikely happens.

You play the game with steam.
But what if steam vanishes? You can still play in offline mode
But what if I uninstalled the game? You'll get an unlock patch from either steam or 2k so you can install without verification
But what if I don't have a physical copy? You can back the game up to dvds using the interface
But what if I don't do this? You can just grab a copy of a friend's backup, or get a friend to back up their copy and give it to you
But what if I don't know anyone who have a backup? 2k will probably provide a download location should steam distribution fail
But what if they don't? You can probably acquire a copy of the game online
But what if I refuse to do that?

Well... then I guess you're probably not going to be able to play the game.

Although to be quite frank, the idea that you wouldn't buy the game for fear of the above sequence of events happening at some point in the future is a joke.

My point is that due to the design of Steam, there are suddenly dozens more points of failure that the games I purchased would not otherwise have if they were not tied to Steam. Any failure along that list you made means my game is suddenly non-functional, whereas the game I purchased without Steam continues to work fine regardless.

Again, there's the notion of acceptable risk here. You may be willing to take the risk, because you're so certain that Steam cannot fail. But it wouldn't be the first time that a company that nobody thought could fail did, and so I'll try to keep myself from being utterly reliant on a single company.

Originally Posted by Sterf

Ok, here's another equally valid scenario: Gabe Newell gets a heart attack, but at the last moment is saved by god. [...]

The point of the story is twofold:
-Throughout all this, everyone could play games through Steam
-Stupid hypothetical future stories never helped anyone with anything, so stop it

Perhaps you want to keep things in the realm of plausibility, like I did? Gabe isn't exactly the healthiest of individuals, considering his weight, so a heart attack isn't far-fetched. Ubisoft is a game company that could easily leverage Steam for its own benefit, and their history of customer relations isn't the cleanest. But you could just as easily replace Ubisoft with another publisher like Activision or Electronic Arts, or a heart attack with a car accident, and the overall scenario is the same.

I didn't make this up because I think that it's exactly how it's going to happen, I made it to illustrate the point that Valve/Steam is no more immune to failure than other companies, and that it could fail more easily than you might think.

[The_Coyote]

Originally Posted by Sterf

OK, fine.

how about if you start to back up your claims? It´s only a 3 page discussion, so your certainly will find the quotes you need to prove and back up everything you claimed he should have said. I will be so nice to provide you the entry point

If you find no proves for your claims, perhaps you should be so free to ask yourself, why you repeatedly think your hypothetical implication of other users posts shall be the opinion of this users.

[Commander Bello]

Originally Posted by Chalks

You would also only have to resort to this if 2k completely abandoned the game and refused to provide an alternative download location.

Since the topic was about what might happen after Steam would be - in whatever way - abandoned, the clear answer is:
If somebody buys a physical copy with internet based activation, if he can download patches from sites which do not require a somewhat strange client, then he will be on the safe side, regardless of what is going to happen to the distributor.

He will not have to download cracks as advertised by you, nor will he have to rely on other parties not being involved.

So, having the chance to obtain a physical copy without being bound to Steam is clearly the better choice.

q.e.d.

Originally Posted by isndl

You might be willing to accept the risk of losing access to your games, but that doesn't hold true for everyone.

I think the obvious conclusion is that he is willing to accept that others shall take this risk. The more, the better, since then he will feel less lonely in the event of such thing to happen.

Originally Posted by Sterf

OK, fine.
Only statements recorded in the EULA you will consider thrustworthy or worthy of your gaze upon it. That is exactly what you said. Since then you clearly insinuated that since the hypothetical demise of Steam wasn't included in the EULA, there wasn't any confirmation of what would happen in certain doom-scenario's regarding Steam. Clearly this means that you expect any business you will associate with are those that do exactly that. Who are these businesses?

The only thing which has been stated so far is that Valve won't give any guarantee that you will be allowed to continuously access their services.
That leaves a lot of options for them, why they would disallow such continuity. Bankruptcy would only be one of these reasons.

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by The_J

If an already bought product of the company will not work anymore when it goes bancrupt, then i would expect something like that.
That you don't, makes you naive.

I think it makes you naive, thinking someone would document their possible ends in the EULA. It's so ridiculous I can't even think what to say to you when you believe something like that, besides gnargleflarb.

Originally Posted by The_J

The other example was completly reasonable.
Your example is a completle hyperbole (never thought i would say something like that ).

So you think the CEO of a company having a heart attack and immediately having a concurrent company take over in it's place (why?), before the corpse of the previous one being cleaned up, and evilly denying everyone their bought games that made the company such a success a plausible scenario? It's as much hyperbole as my story, though my story had more thought behind it.

[Senethro]

If you'd seen a picture of Gabe you wouldn't think a heart attack was hyperbole.

(I'm sorry man I love your games but I want you to be able to make many more)

[The_Coyote]

Originally Posted by Sterf

I think it makes you naive, thinking someone would document their possible ends in the EULA.

in the event of a merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event involving all or a portion of the Company, the Company's customer information may be transferred to our successor or assign.

source: privacy policy take2

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by isndl

Perhaps you want to keep things in the realm of plausibility, like I did? Gabe isn't exactly the healthiest of individuals, considering his weight, so a heart attack isn't far-fetched. Ubisoft is a game company that could easily leverage Steam for its own benefit, and their history of customer relations isn't the cleanest. But you could just as easily replace Ubisoft with another publisher like Activision or Electronic Arts, or a heart attack with a car accident, and the overall scenario is the same.

I didn't make this up because I think that it's exactly how it's going to happen, I made it to illustrate the point that Valve/Steam is no more immune to failure than other companies, and that it could fail more easily than you might think.

Why. Would. You. Think. That. Another. Company. Would. Take. Over. Because. Some. Fat. Guy. Died? He's not the only one in the company you know.

Your point is as ridiculous as anything other in this godawful thread. Based on absolutely nothing, yet bathing in a pool of self-righteous smugness.
Their history of customer relations is pretty much the best you can expect in the gaming industry. Which company allows you to email the CEO and get an actual reply in response besides Valve?

[Senethro]

Is a privacy policy a EULA? I'm asking I genuinely don't know.

Originally Posted by Sterf

Which company allows you to email the CEO and get an actual reply in response besides Valve?

Seriously, Gabe always introduces the commentary mode for all Valve games and gives his email address at the end of it. Cool guy.

[Senethro]

Oops!

[Sterf]

Originally Posted by The_Coyote

source: privacy policy take2

We're now using other companies EULA's to prove our points? Goddamit, you should've told me. Let me catch up, I'll just be a minute.