what do you want to see in Batman 3?

[Mad Man]

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

I think The Riddler has been confirmed for this film. I want to see, to quote holy_king, "a dark and edgy Riddler." It will be an incredibly difficult character to make dark and edgy, so I look forward to having a really good actor running with it. If I had a choice, I'd pick Philip Seymour Hoffman. I think he could pull off a creepy Riddler.

As for non-Riddler things, I'd like to see Wayne Manor re-built, more of the Bat-pod, and Arthur or Lucius Fox come under threat. If any character can legitimately pierce Batman's secret identity without it being annoying, it's The Riddler, so I don't think I'd have a problem with that, though it usually annoys me when the hero is unmasked by the villain in super-hero films.

Who's Arthur?

[Lord Baal]

Originally Posted by Mad Man

Who's Arthur?

Oops, the girlfriend watching Merlin on television in the lounge room clearly messed with me. I obviously meant Alfred.

[holy king]

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

I think The Riddler has been confirmed for this film.

seriously?

[Mad Man]

I'd like to see Deathstroke, Firefly, and Rupert Thorne as the villains in the next batflick, also it would be cool to see Diana Prince(though not necesarly as Wonder Woman) as Bruse Wayne's love intrest.

[Virote_Considon]

I would like to see the fall of Byzantium.

Failing that, the Penguin would be nice...

[Disgustipated]

Originally Posted by holy king

dark and edgy sex scenes?

what's an example of a dark and edgy sex scene? What is dark sex?

[holy king]

Originally Posted by Disgustipated

what's an example of a dark and edgy sex scene? What is dark sex?

i guess that's up to the director to explore.

[Lord Baal]

Originally Posted by holy king

seriously?

Yep. It was rumoured that he would appear as a reported in the Dark Knight - a Mister E. Nygma was a reporter who wrote several articles used in the viral campaign to advertise the film prior to Heath Ledger's death - but the role was changed to that of another male reporter. The actor's name escapes me at the moment, but it's the guy The Joker kidnaps and forces to read his message to Gotham. Nolan said before The Dark Knight was even released that if he was hired for a third film he'd use The Riddler as the primary villain. He also plans to focus on Batman's abilities as a detective in the next film, which makes The Riddler the perfect choice to match wits with him.

Originally Posted by Disgustipated

what's an example of a dark and edgy sex scene? What is dark sex?

Basic Instinct immediately springs to mind.

[Plotinus]

I don't think it makes a great deal of difference which villain it is. I'm more interested in the way the film is constructed and what it's actually about. The new Batman series has been interesting because it hasn't been simply a matter of "Batman versus whichever villain it is", as the earlier series was. In the first film, they didn't really have a major villain at all, other than the Scarecrow's relatively small part. In the second film, they used the Joker to consider questions of chaos and order, what makes a person good, and things of that sort. And, of course, they completely re-interpreted the character of the Joker himself to do that. If the third film is just a not-very-edifying battle between Batman and some other goon in a silly outfit then it's hard to see the point. If, however, as Lord Baal suggests, they use the opportunity to explore Batman's character and do some new things with him, then that's a bit more interesting and worthwhile.

Batman begins and The dark knight were both excellent films (I actually preferred the first, although the second was possibly more interesting), and I think much of their excellence came from the fact that they tried to do something a bit different and more ambitious from the same old superhero stuff (and yes, I know he's not a superhero). They tried to use the character and story of Batman to ask wider questions. If there's to be a third film I hope very much it will continue along these lines and not simply degenerate into a Batman forever retread.

[Lord Baal]

Batman's character definitely needs to be explored more. The Dark Knight, while fantastic, focused almost exclusively on developing the characters of the villains, Joker and Two-Face. While this was a pretty original thing to do and resulted in a great film, Batman should never be among the least interesting characters in a Batman film. I found myself more interested in Alfred in TDK than Bruce Wayne, which isn't a good thing.

Now, some people will say that the first film in the new series focused adequately upon Batman's character, to which I offer the following riposte; Batman Begins didn't focus on Batman's character at all. It focused on Bruce Wayne. Batman Begins was a story about the evolution of Bruce Wayne, how he came to adopt the persona of Batman. I think by this time, with the death of Rachel Dawes all-but removing Wayne's chance of ever returning to a normal life, Wayne is set to complete the metamorphosis; it is time for Bruce Wayne to become Batman. Despite what Katie Holmes may have said at the end of Batman Begins, Wayne had not yet become Batman in reality, with Bruce Wayne being a show for the public. The reverse still held true. By the end of TDK, it appears that Batman is super-ceding Wayne in his own mind. The third film should explore this, and knowing Nolan, it probably will.

Thus far the third film appears to have just the one villain, The Riddler, though I've heard rumours of Selena Kyle making an appearance pre-Catwoman, possibly working with Nygma in the newspaper he is apparently reporter for. This should leave plenty of time for the story to focus on Batman. I look forward to a film that is less about action - though I'm sure there'll be plenty - and more about the intellectual battle of wills between the two men.

In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne defeated Ra's Al Ghul through brute force. He had more resources than the League of Shadows. In The Dark Knight, Batman didn't defeat The Joker; he simply assumed the Christ mantle by allowing himself to be punished for Two-Face's sins, which may well be what The Joker wanted all along. If Batman doesn't take the blame, The Joker wins by breaking Gotham's spirit. If Batman does take the blame, The Joker wins by showing that Batman is corruptible. Either way, The Joker wins, regardless of his capture and presumed imprisonment/execution. The third film needs Batman to defeat his adversary by outsmarting him. Especially when the villain is one whose character is based on his intelligence.

[Plotinus]

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

Batman's character definitely needs to be explored more. The Dark Knight, while fantastic, focused almost exclusively on developing the characters of the villains, Joker and Two-Face. While this was a pretty original thing to do and resulted in a great film, Batman should never be among the least interesting characters in a Batman film.

I agree with this, and I did find myself thinking something similar during the second film. However, I disagree that it's unusual for such a film to focus on the characters of the villains. On the contrary, I'd say that this is standard for every single superhero series after the first one. Thinking back to the 1980s/90s Batman films, this was the case with them after the first one. The same with Superman, as well as more recent series such as Spider-man. The problem is that most of these hero characters are really fairly straightforward. Once you've set the character up in the first film, there's not a great deal to say about him in subsequent ones, which is why they become increasingly about the villains.

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

The third film needs Batman to defeat his adversary by outsmarting him. Especially when the villain is one whose character is based on his intelligence.

Yes, quite right. This is one of the things that make Batman an interesting character (at least in the comics). He can't just out-punch everyone as Superman can. Compare the pretty dreadful plot of the recent Superman film, where he overcomes the villain by just focusing really, really hard on not being overcome by kryptonite. He doesn't really resolve any problem except through brute force. Let's keep Batman more rounded and more interesting by not resorting to this kind of thing.

I also hope that, assuming the villain is the Riddler, he is portrayed in a more original and realistic way, as with the Joker. I think that one of the interesting things about both of the new Batman films is that they were quite believable and seemed to be anchored in the real world - despite being set in a fictional and rather unusual-looking city, and featuring people running around in silly costumes hitting each other. They asked what a costumed vigilante and what a costumed villain really are, rather than just assuming these categories as givens. So let's hope that the Riddler isn't simply presented as another flamboyant by-the-numbers villain in a strange outfit with just a simple gimmick to distinguish him from the others, but is a distinctive and believable character in a story that makes sense.

[Lord Baal]

Originally Posted by Plotinus

I agree with this, and I did find myself thinking something similar during the second film. However, I disagree that it's unusual for such a film to focus on the characters of the villains. On the contrary, I'd say that this is standard for every single superhero series after the first one. Thinking back to the 1980s/90s Batman films, this was the case with them after the first one. The same with Superman, as well as more recent series such as Spider-man. The problem is that most of these hero characters are really fairly straightforward. Once you've set the character up in the first film, there's not a great deal to say about him in subsequent ones, which is why they become increasingly about the villains.

Focusing on the characters of the villains isn't unusual. Focusing on them well is, however. The characters in TDK actually showed some growth. The characters in the previous Batman series and the Spider-Man films didn't tend to grow or change at all, except for reversing their characteristics from good-to-evil and vice-versa.

[Plotinus]

That I can entirely agree with.

[Jos Ballenbak]

So if we want smart villains, I think we should hope for a return of Rha's al Ghul the main villain in the first Batman, A Johnny Depp Riddler would be awesome, and the Penguin played by Phillip Seymour-Hoffman.

And Jack Black as Mr. Freeze, just kidding (or not....)

[Lord Baal]

Originally Posted by Jos Ballenbak

So if we want smart villains, I think we should hope for a return of Rha's al Ghul the main villain in the first Batman, A Johnny Depp Riddler would be awesome, and the Penguin played by Phillip Seymour-Hoffman.

And Jack Black as Mr. Freeze, just kidding (or not....)

You know, that's a bloody good idea. I hadn't thought of Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin, but he's one of the few actors that could pull it off. A Johnny Depp Riddler would be great.

[Bast]

OMG Christian Bale is SOOO Hot!

[Bast]

I want to see THIS:

[Lord Baal]

It's nice to see the intellectual maturity of this discussion has remained at such a high level. If that's what we were talking about, there are several positions I'd like to see Jessica Alba placed in. Preferably in lingerie, while handcuffed.

[classical_hero]

Hey, quit stealing my fantasies. I am talking to LB, not bast, BTW.

[GoodSarmatian]

As a 90+% heterosexual male I have to admit Christian Bale is one of the few guys I'd probably do...