Great Prophet bulbs Civil Service 500BC

[budweiser]

I just figured out how to do this, thought I would share it.

To do this, you want to first Oracle>Col and then bulb Theo and then bulb CS using 2 Great Prophets as your first 2 Great people.

Here’s how:
Worker first, get some growth going:

AGRICULTURE

Now you want to get Henge going ASAP so research

MYSTICISM

You want Henge ASAP, so chop it. Research

MINING> BRONZE WORKING

Now you have a lot of research to do so you need a buff to that:

THE WHEEL > POTTERY

Put in some cottages in the cap, get a second city going, don’t forget workers.
Now you want the Oracle, so:

MEDITATION>PRIESTHOOD

Immediately go to

WRITING

And coordinate the Oracle to finish the same turn as Writing, choose

CODE OF LAWS as a free tech

The next step is to bulb Theo when GP1 comes out.
You are going to need

MASONRY>POLYTHEISM>MONOTHEISM (change the order and go for Judaism if you feel lucky)

But, you are now armed with plenty of trade bait as well as Caste System to help your research. When GP1 comes in, bulb

THEOCRACY

Immediately switch to

MATHEMATICS

And do what ever you can to get GP2 ASAP (read build temples and hire priests)
When GP2 is in, bulb

CIVIL SERVICE and enjoy.

Your mileage may vary, consider that several leaders will give boosts different activities along this path.

INCA should be able to nail this. Discuss.

[JammerUno]

This would work better with egypt. Either leader will do.

But the techpath is crappy, and it's possible to get CS in the BCs by just teching it, where you research useful techs and get there a couple of turns later with a far better empire.

Also, you can take education from the oracle with about thesame commitment although more risk since you build it a bit later. GP bulb theo, GS bulb paper, oracle edu.

[ParadigmShifter]

Oracling Education is pretty bad, you're better getting civil service earlier and running bureaucracy for longer.

There was a lot of discussion about this last time there was a settler space race gauntlet in the HoF.

[NihilZero]

In the current Gandhi SE game it's very easy to Oracle CS on Immortal circa 1600 BC (gold in the BFC). On other maps the Oracle goes before 2000 BC, though.

As discussed last time the GP CS bulb came up, the problem with it is Masonry. I believe it was much more feasible before BTS because GPs would bulb CS before Masonry.

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by NihilZero

In the current Gandhi SE game it's very easy to Oracle CS on Immortal circa 1600 BC (gold in the BFC). On other maps the Oracle goes before 2000 BC, though.

As discussed last time the GP CS bulb came up, the problem with it is Masonry. I believe it was much more feasible before BTS because GPs would bulb CS before Masonry.

The biggest problem I see is the time it takes to spawn the second prophet. There isnt much guarrentee that you can get additional GP points via temples earlier than COL, if that even works.

[Grashopa]

If your land sucks its good to know your bulb possibilities like this. And bulbing into theocracy early is always great for the extra promo in a hammer heavy map.

[JoeHollywood]

or you could just use the oracle cheat and get ALL the techs...heh

[ParadigmShifter]

Getting Prophets early makes your capital academy arrive slower as well.

[Merovinge]

Originally Posted by ParadigmShifter

Getting Prophets early makes your capital academy arrive slower as well.

Yea I worry about waiting for the third great person to be an academy when you aren't a Philo leader, the academy/buro bonuses are just nuts. It also dumps a lot of forests into Stonehedge, which isn't a super strong start in my experience. Still good to consider, I never run down the bottom of the tech tree like that.

[MkLh]

There is a thread already about this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=362220

I think this is more interesting than Oracle->CS -slingshot wich is doable only in superb starts...

[obsolete]

also, you can take education from the oracle...

lol!!!!

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by NihilZero

In the current Gandhi SE game it's very easy to Oracle CS on Immortal circa 1600 BC (gold in the BFC). On other maps the Oracle goes before 2000 BC, though.

What game is this? And on higher difficulties the Oracle often goes before that,. but yeah, on lower ones you can tech ridiculously far, same as liberalism for fusion or something like that.

[NihilZero]

@ Earthling - see this game http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367873
A couple of the veteran players went for the CS slingshot strategy when they saw the starting location. I tried it myself and found it surprisingly easy.

There are a few problems though: 1) you need a spectacularly good capital (the Gandhi one is about as good as they come), 2) it's always a gamble because the Oracle can go very early in a lot of games, and 3) even if you succeed, you have to weigh the risk of only having one city - albeit a bureaucracy capital - at 1500 BC. If there is still room to settle it can work as you can pump out settlers and workers pretty fast with bureau, but getting CS is not an instant win by any means.

[Merovinge]

The nice thing about CS, is that trading it back for a bunch of tech's that you miss is less painful as the AI doesn't leverage Bureau like we can. That said I won't ever be trying Deity and its somewhat reasonable gambit on something like emporer in the right settings.

Reminds me a bit of the Queen's gambit for any chess players. It wins you 2/3 of the games you play it if you know what your doing.

[iggymnrr]

Oracling Education is pretty bad, you're better getting civil service earlier and running bureaucracy for longer.

There was a lot of discussion about this last time there was a settler space race gauntlet in the HoF.

Speaking of which ... there is a submitted game currently in the HoF queue awaiting acceptance. The game may inspire a story. For now let's just say bureaucracy was adopted shortly after 2905 BC.

[obsolete]

Speaking of which... HoF games are basically useless. I'm not sure how in any way something like HoF should apply to someone who wishes to play a non-cheating game out of the box.

There is nothing to Ohhh & Awww about BC space-launches either for that matter.

[iggymnrr]

There is nothing to Ohhh & Awww about BC space-launches either for that matter.

I said story not Ohhh & Awww which implies some writing ability. Don't know if I'm up to it.

I'm not sure how in any way something like HoF should apply to someone who wishes to play a non-cheating game out of the box.

Not necessarily. Out of the box means game options are available. The moment things change, like turning random events off, the notion of "out of the box" goes out the window. Debates develop.

[TheMeInTeam]

Originally Posted by iggymnrr

I said story not Ohhh & Awww which implies some writing ability. Don't know if I'm up to it.



Not necessarily. Out of the box means game options are available. The moment things change, like turning random events off, the notion of "out of the box" goes out the window. Debates develop.

His point is that HoF games are not representative of a typical game, and that's true.

HoF rules are in place for a reason however. If you didn't allow people to select their opponents, the guy with more patience ("let's just play 100 times until we get ideal leaders" and a good start) would outperform the guy who could handle a wide variety of starts skillfully.

Of course, allowing events runs counter to that goal and makes it somewhat of a joke if the finish times are close since something like tower shields on marathon abuse DEFINITELY can make a difference in finish date.

My main objection with HoF is that BUFFY runs the game slower than default, however. I don't like waiting for the interface. There's no reason I should be faster than the computer can handle on my own turn with a machine beyond specs available to most people when this game was released.

[lasombra1984]

IMO bulbing Civil Service with a Prophet - is wasting a GP.
If you want early CS - you can Oracle that, it is not extremly hard (easier than oracling Machinery or Feudalism after all), thus you can build a shrine if you've got a Prophet or get an another GP type.

[MkLh]

Originally Posted by lasombra1984

IMO bulbing Civil Service with a Prophet - is wasting a GP.
If you want early CS - you can Oracle that, it is not extremly hard (easier than oracling Machinery or Feudalism after all), thus you can build a shrine if you've got a Prophet or get an another GP type.

On higher levels (say Emperor+) Oracle->CS is impossible without an exceptional start. IMO bulbing is usually better use of a GP than a shrine. Unless you are lucky enough to have an early religion (again difficult on higher levels) you need to build a missionary for every new coin from a shrine. That investment takes a long time to pay off.