Odd UU/UB choices?

[CHEESE!]

We've heard the kerfuffle over the B17, but are there not some other odd UU/UB choices?

The Bazaar- wouldn't that be better for Ottomans or Persians? (Madrassa sounds more accurate.)

The Floating Gardens- Wasn't the Sacrificial Altar a much more fitting UB?

Chinese Paper Maker- A. Was the Pavilion not a better choice, B. Couldn't they think of a better name?

Mughal Fort- I would like a UB that has a direct and unique connection, rather than just a Fort with Mughal slapped on it.

Mud Pyramid Mosque- Name could probably be improved....

Satrap's Court- See Mughal Fort. A bit better though.

I've got less of a problem with the UUs, but Siam's (Naresuan’s Elephant) is a bit like the Mughal Fort.

Feel free to criticize these criticisms. I don't know much about most of them, but these are just my bare considerations.

[cybrxkhan]

So far I'm fine with most of them, even if the names are a bit funny, as at the least the concept of the UU or UB did play a role in that civilization's history. The "Paper Maker" for China, for example, shows the importance of the invention of paper to Chinese and world history.

However, there are a few that I'm a bit curious about, particularly:

Naresuan's Elephant - I know that Naresuan was one of the great Siamese monarchs, but is he really that special that he deserves a UU named after him? Think about how ridiculous "Washington's Musketman" or "Joan of Arc's Knight" or "Shaka's Spearman" would be. I think "Mahout" would be a better name.

Burial Tomb - It's not that bad of a name, but it would be nicer if they had something more specific, like a Mastaba, although maybe I'm being a bit picky.

Jaguar - Alright, this goes back to Civ4, but a better term would be a "Jaguar Warrior" or "Jaguar Knight". You can't really have an animal as your UU, usually.

Well, there's for being picky.

[The_J]

Originally Posted by CHEESE!

The Bazaar- wouldn't that be better for Ottomans or Persians? (Madrassa sounds more accurate.)

Sorry, but bazaar is one of the first things i think of when i hear "Arabia".
The only more arabian would probably be "Harem".

Originally Posted by cybrxkhan

Naresuan's Elephant - I know that Naresuan was one of the great Siamese monarchs, but is he really that special that he deserves a UU named after him? Think about how ridiculous "Washington's Musketman" or "Joan of Arc's Knight" or "Shaka's Spearman" would be. I think "Mahout" would be a better name.

I might be wrong, but is Mahout not the general name for the rider of an indian elephant?

[cybrxkhan]

Originally Posted by The_J

Sorry, but bazaar is one of the first things i think of when i hear "Arabia".
The only more arabian would probably be "Harem".

Actually, Harem would make me think of the Ottomans, but I agree with your point on the Bazaar. So far as I know, to most people, it makes them think of a generic Middle Eastern market, so it could theoretically be okay for any Middle Eastern civ, be it Arabia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, Turkey, Morrocco, India, or Central Asia. Anyhow, if you want a commerce-themed structure for the Turks or Persians, a Caravanserai would probably do better (see Wikipedia for more).

Originally Posted by The_J

I might be wrong, but is Mahout not the general name for the rider of an indian elephant?

Actually that's true, I think, but if I remember correctly, the Mahout was also a UU for the Persians and Indians in Rise of Nations. Even if it would be an "incorrect" term, it still makes more sense than "Naresuan's Elephant" in my opinion.

[12agnar0k]

Atleast England's Longbowman is correctly named :P

[Schuesseled]

Your mistaken brother. Back when longbows were state of the art, the units were called, "Oi! Mate, Are you making up with that longbow for a length you do not have elsewhere, gwaff gwaff gwaff."............*Whoosh*Whoosh*Whoosh* *Thud*Thud*Thud*

[The_J]

nice.

Originally Posted by cybrxkhan

Actually, Harem would make me think of the Ottomans, but I agree with your point on the Bazaar. So far as I know, to most people, it makes them think of a generic Middle Eastern market, so it could theoretically be okay for any Middle Eastern civ, be it Arabia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, Turkey, Morrocco, India, or Central Asia. Anyhow, if you want a commerce-themed structure for the Turks or Persians, a Caravanserai would probably do better (see Wikipedia for more).

Harem makes me think of 1001 nights, not really more of the turks, but i can see the connection.
For the bazaar, well, i would not say not beyond the middle east and not mesopotamia, the first is more connected to other things (in fact, the Caravanserai would be better here imho), the last one is just too old.

Originally Posted by cybrxkhan

Actually that's true, I think, but if I remember correctly, the Mahout was also a UU for the Persians and Indians in Rise of Nations. Even if it would be an "incorrect" term, it still makes more sense than "Naresuan's Elephant" in my opinion.

I thought you might be right, but i've looked it up now from wikipedia (here), and it says:

The personal battle between Naresuan and Minchit Sra was a highly-romanticized historical scene known as Yuttahadhi, the Elephant battle.

So Naresuan's Elephant is something with a background.

[cybrxkhan]

True... but again, I don't think we have a "Alexander's Horseman" or a "Patton's Tank" as a UU, so, eh... Whatever.

[CHEESE!]

Originally Posted by The_J

Sorry, but bazaar is one of the first things i think of when i hear "Arabia".
The only more arabian would probably be "Harem".

The Grand Bazaar is in Istanbul (and the greatest bazaar in the world, too)- so that word is insolubly (sp?) linked to Ottomans to me. Plus, 'Bazaar' is a Persian word.

Harem is completely Ottoman.

For me, the really Arabian buildings are Madrassa, Mosque, and Suq.

[bjbrains]

Originally Posted by CHEESE!

We've heard the kerfuffle over the B17, but are there not some other odd UU/UB choices?

The Bazaar- wouldn't that be better for Ottomans or Persians? (Madrassa sounds more accurate.)

The Floating Gardens- Wasn't the Sacrificial Altar a much more fitting UB?

Chinese Paper Maker- A. Was the Pavilion not a better choice, B. Couldn't they think of a better name?

Mughal Fort- I would like a UB that has a direct and unique connection, rather than just a Fort with Mughal slapped on it.

Mud Pyramid Mosque- Name could probably be improved....

Satrap's Court- See Mughal Fort. A bit better though.

I've got less of a problem with the UUs, but Siam's (Naresuan’s Elephant) is a bit like the Mughal Fort.

Feel free to criticize these criticisms. I don't know much about most of them, but these are just my bare considerations.

Here's my comments on what you said:
Bazaar: The middle east was famous for its trade routes to sub-saharan Africa and Asia. It's a big part of Arabian history.
Floating Gardens: Perhaps they wanted to highlight a different aspect of Aztec culture (Their building achievements), rather than the usual focus on blood sacrifices.
Chinese Paper Maker: Pavilion is rather generic, Paper Maker shows off a unique achievement of Chinese culture.
Mughal Fort: The Mughal forts are famous around the work for their intricate fortifications. It also allows for more diversity in the UBs (by replacing the fort, as I guess it will).
Mud Pyramid Mosque: The name is awkward, but I can't find a better way to anglicize it.
Satrap's Court: Shows off another somewhat neglected (within the civ series) aspect of Persian society (Their advanced organizational system for the time).

[CHEESE!]

Perhaps Mughal Forts are famous, but if they do replace the Fort, doesn't it seem a bit of a cop-out? Can't they even translate it into its Mughal name? On that basis, all the UUs would be Siamese Temple and Songhai Monsque and Aztec Garden and Arabian Market. It seems just.... generic.

[12agnar0k]

I'm sure certain words are used in more than one country. So to say "no no no, that word isn't X its from Y" may have no bearing on whether or not its still suitable to X.
Also thiers no point in having tons of un-readable foreign names (thier un-readable if you cant read that language) when your English game version's primary player base are English Speakers, I say primary, it could also be only :P, So hopefully you get my point. English names that represent the UU is fine, imaginative or not, its better than having a foreign title we would need to go to google to find out what it is. Although because the game will be on Steam with an Ingame browser, that certainly is a possibility :P.

[CMKMStephens]

Originally Posted by cybrxkhan

True... but again, I don't think we have a "Alexander's Horseman" or a "Patton's Tank" as a UU, so, eh... Whatever.

Actually Alexander's horsemen did have a specific name: the 'Companion's' or hetairoi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companion_cavalry

But still, not literally 'Alexander's cavalry'

[CHEESE!]

Originally Posted by 12agnar0k

I'm sure certain words are used in more than one country. So to say "no no no, that word isn't X its from Y" may have no bearing on whether or not its still suitable to X.
Also thiers no point in having tons of un-readable foreign names (thier un-readable if you cant read that language) when your English game version's primary player base are English Speakers, I say primary, it could also be only :P, So hopefully you get my point. English names that represent the UU is fine, imaginative or not, its better than having a foreign title we would need to go to google to find out what it is. Although because the game will be on Steam with an Ingame browser, that certainly is a possibility :P.

No. I don't get your point. All I would like is a UNIQUE BUILDING, rather than just a for with 'Mughal' slapped on it. Otherwise it's just not unique- it would be a Siamese Temple or an American Musketman or a German Pikeman. It's just generic. Can you see my point?

[12agnar0k]

well I will endever to try to explain better.

Actually Alexander's horsemen did have a specific name: the 'Companion's' or hetairoi:

So now if we had a UU named Alexander's Horsman, bit of a naff name I admit, but when you read it, you know what it's refering to, a man on horse back. Where as if the UU was titled "hetairoi" unless you have already memorised all the UU's you would have no idea what UU your Civ gives you.
So now while names like Mughal Fort aren't particularly imaginative, you know exactly what it is, you don't have to google it to find out what it is.

[CHEESE!]

On that basis, the Wat and the Bazaar and the Floating Gardens wouldn't exist.

[mavors]

Originally Posted by 12agnar0k

well I will endever to try to explain better.



So now if we had a UU named Alexander's Horsman, bit of a naff name I admit, but when you read it, you know what it's refering to, a man on horse back. Where as if the UU was titled "hetairoi" unless you have already memorised all the UU's you would have no idea what UU your Civ gives you.
So now while names like Mughal Fort aren't particularly imaginative, you know exactly what it is, you don't have to google it to find out what it is.

But isn't that why the civilpedia is in the game? One of Civ good points is that you can learn new stuff with a few clicks, while having fun playing a game. So what if you have no idea what a hetairoi is? if you want to know, the game gives you the means to find out

[Omega124]

Originally Posted by cybrxkhan

True... but again, I don't think we have a "Alexander's Horseman" or a "Patton's Tank" as a UU, so, eh... Whatever.

Yes, but we do have a Foreign Legion, and last Civ we had a Navy SEAL. UUs can be extremely specific if they want them to. Plus, the Companions said before.

Anyways, I want to say the Longhouse. It's only a residential building, it doesn't make sense that it would replace anything. However, I'm hardpressed to think of anything better, so yeah.

[MrBanana]

I think Arabia's UB should be a Cazba, but that's just me.

[CHEESE!]

Originally Posted by mavors

But isn't that why the civilpedia is in the game? One of Civ good points is that you can learn new stuff with a few clicks, while having fun playing a game. So what if you have no idea what a hetairoi is? if you want to know, the game gives you the means to find out

Better than I could have said it.