The New Magic System

[wapamingo]

I am sorry to make a new thread with regards to this but the information is spread out and it not easy to get a handle on.

I have a few questions, I hope you can answer (most are yes/no):

(1) The new magic system functions on Mana currency?
(2) Mana currency is obtained from buildings such as Mage Guild, Library, Alchemist shop (that other +science building); and mana nodes?
(3) How will civs that cannot build such buildings be balanced (like Clan or Doviello)?
(4) Mage Guild Wonder (the one that gives Mage Guilds) - balance in cost if it gives free mana in each city? (assuming Mage guild give mana)
(5) Where will Mana currency be displayed? Is there a +/- adjustment for it?
(6) Spell Research, what is this? What drives it? Mana currency?
(7) Random Events to give or take away Mana currency?
(8) Rituals replace instant summons, summons last forever but cost Mana currency upkeep?
(9) Single-use spells (such as those lasting 1 turn only) cost Mana currency?
(10) Permanent unit target spells (such as enchanted blades) cost Mana currency and Mana currency upkeep per turn?
(10) Global Enchantments cost Mana currency + or upkeep?
(11) Terraforming spells cost Mana currency + or Upkeep?

(12) Faith currency? What is this? How is it influenced?
(13) Comparatively to Mana Currency - harder to accumulate?
(14) Faith Research similar to Spell Research?

(15) When will the new system be released?

Thank you

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one thing we know is that with all those rituals, celestial compass will be badass

[tesb]

1) Mana for arcane spells/summons, faith for divine ones
2) yes (give or take a few buildings)
5) i doubt there will be slider, in the very early beta versions i played it was just an icon for each resource with numbers behind it
6) spell research is a third resource like, mana and faith. it is increased by mage guilds, alchemy labs etc. once you accumulated a certain amount of spell research you can unlock different spells
8) summoning rituals cost mana or faith instead of and the summons themselves have an upkeep, so basically: yes
9) afaik all spells will cost mana or faith (abilities will not however), keep in mind that buffs will be completely different so no one turn haste anymore see point ten.
10) buffs work like this: your mage can have one out of three auras: holy armor, elemental augmentation or dark blessing. when you mage levels up and you have the approritate mana you can choose side effects belonging to that aura, for example enchanted blade. when you mage levels up further you can choose to add more sideeffects or instead make the aura more powerfull (i.e. it targets more units, has a longer range etc.)
the auras are permanent and stack with those of the summons
12) similiar to mana, but it is required for divine spells (miracles) and summons. it is acumulated through temples and the like
14) afaik there are only mana, faith and spell research, but no seperate faith research
15) i don't know, but sephi wanted to release a public beta first



edit:

one thing we know is that with all those rituals, celestial compass will be badass

as of now summoning rituals cost mana/faith and celestial compass reduces only the cost, i don't know if sephi wants to change it though

[wapamingo]

Thank you very much tesb.

If it is public beta, can that be a gameplay option so if it is buggy it can be turned off for regular WM gameplay?

[tesb]

If it is public beta, can that be a gameplay option so if it is buggy it can be turned off for regular WM gameplay?

i very much doubt it and i think the beta will be there mostly for balance and very minor bugs (not gamebraking ones).

[Valkrionn]

If it is a beta, and not part of the release, then there is no reason it should be toggle-able; If it is too buggy, you simply do not take part in the beta.

[wapamingo]

well, I would like to participate and test it out, but rather not reinstall WM every time I want to play MP.

[Valkrionn]

That all comes with the beta test idea. There's no real way to do it otherwise, as making it toggleable means preserving the old system as well. With such an extensive rewrite, that would be extremely timeconsuming. It's simply not worth the time, though Sephi may think differently.

Really, just keep two directories. WM, and WM Beta. Problem solved.

[Sephi]

yes, that's what I did in the past and it worked well.

[Tarquelne]

Originally Posted by Sephi

yes, that's what I did in the past and it worked well.

I've done that, too.

So long as you don't spend 6 hours modding one folder and then testing from another, everything's fine.

[Valkrionn]

Yep, I've been doing it for months.

Hell, I actually have three directories... RifE 1.23, RifE 1.3 (Team version), RifE 1.3 (Development version)

Merge from #3 to #2 before committing to the SVN.

[esvath]

Q :
What will happen with magic promotions (Death1, Death2, etc)? Will the promotions still exist? If yes, what will they do?

[Sephi]

Originally Posted by wapamingo

I am sorry to make a new thread with regards to this but the information is spread out and it not easy to get a handle on.

I have a few questions, I hope you can answer (most are yes/no):

(1) The new magic system functions on Mana currency?
(2) Mana currency is obtained from buildings such as Mage Guild, Library, Alchemist shop (that other +science building); and mana nodes?
(3) How will civs that cannot build such buildings be balanced (like Clan or Doviello)?
(4) Mage Guild Wonder (the one that gives Mage Guilds) - balance in cost if it gives free mana in each city? (assuming Mage guild give mana)
(5) Where will Mana currency be displayed? Is there a +/- adjustment for it?
(6) Spell Research, what is this? What drives it? Mana currency?
(7) Random Events to give or take away Mana currency?
(8) Rituals replace instant summons, summons last forever but cost Mana currency upkeep?
(9) Single-use spells (such as those lasting 1 turn only) cost Mana currency?
(10) Permanent unit target spells (such as enchanted blades) cost Mana currency and Mana currency upkeep per turn?
(10) Global Enchantments cost Mana currency + or upkeep?
(11) Terraforming spells cost Mana currency + or Upkeep?

(12) Faith currency? What is this? How is it influenced?
(13) Comparatively to Mana Currency - harder to accumulate?
(14) Faith Research similar to Spell Research?

(15) When will the new system be released?

Thank you

1) Combat Auras not. They are unlocked by Promotions from Arcane Units
2) Mostly from Mana Nodes. Buildings also give a little bit
3) They will be able to build them as they have a good reason now. Maybe add a UB Shaman hut or something
4) Will give mana instead of Free Buildings
5) All new commerce types are displayed next to gold (top-left corner) New Magic screens also have their buttons there. No +/- button for new commerce types
6) Spell Research is generated by the mana you own. Different Mana gives different type of Spell Research. Some is also generated by Buildings like library.
7) not planned. there are already over way over 100 random events
8) Yes, Summons also become stronger when they level up and have powerful combatauras. Air Elemental for example increases movement of units, even siege.
9) yes
10) Spells replaced by Combatauras
11) Terraforming only cost mana, global enchantment cost mana+upkeep
12) For Faith you need a State Religion. The longer you stick to one Religion, the more Faith you get. Temples of State Religion also increase this
13) divine units will use faith for their spells instead of mana
14) No Faith Research. Divine Techs like Arete etc. are still in the normal techtree
15) I don't know, but shouldn't take long till a beta

The promotion system of arcane units is much different. Instead of unlocking spells by promotions Arcane units now pick promotions to make spells/combatauras stronger or add additional effects to them.

[Breez]

wow HUGE changes and they sound for the better... really looking forward to this.

[tesb]

6) Spell Research is generated by the mana you own. Different Mana gives different type of Spell Research. Some is also generated by Buildings like library.

Q1) Will the spellresearch be divided in spheres (i.e. fire magic research, water magic research etc.) or in categories (i.e. dark maic research, light magic research and elemental magic research)?
Q2) Is there a seperate spellresearch screen similiar to the techtree?
Q3) If yes, can you post a preview pic of it?


edit: unrelated to the quote
Q4) What will happen with non arcane spellcasters for example Vampires/ Firebows etc.?

[Tarquelne]

Arcane buildings and mana generation:

Originally Posted by Sephi

3) They will be able to build them as they have a good reason now.

They have good reason to want them. That's not necessarily a good reason to get them, especially if they only give a "little bit". I'd expect some civs to be better at generating mana than others. No Dov. Mage's Guild, for example, could be part of that.

EDIT: Not that I'm particularly against a Dov. MG. Though maybe a souped-up Elder Council would be more appropriate for shamans? I like UBs.

[Sephi]

Originally Posted by tesb

Q1) Will the spellresearch be divided in spheres (i.e. fire magic research, water magic research etc.) or in categories (i.e. dark maic research, light magic research and elemental magic research)?
Q2) Is there a seperate spellresearch screen similiar to the techtree?
Q3) If yes, can you post a preview pic of it?

1.) First categories, then spheres
2.) yes, with three subscreens, one for each category.

Originally Posted by tesb

edit: unrelated to the quote
Q4) What will happen with non arcane spellcasters for example Vampires/ Firebows etc.?

4.) probably get new unique spells. Didn't like Death1/2 on Vampires anyway.

@Tarquelne Doviello already get less spell research (no library, etc.), so probably they should get more mana than other civs.

[Tarquelne]

Originally Posted by Sephi

@Tarquelne Doviello already get less spell research (no library, etc.), so probably they should get more mana than other civs.

Ah. Interesting if that's a general distinction between mage-type magic and shaman-type magic.

[DonQuigleone]

I don't think Doviello should get more Mana to make up for a lack of libraries giving Mana, it just makes them more like everyone else. Instead they should have some alternative arrangement. Maybe they get Mana from killing their enemies or something, or from fighting arena battles.

[tesb]

Maybe they get Mana from killing their enemies

now that is a cool idea