[BTS] Spawning with a great general?

[AnotherPacifist]

I know Rhye isn't going to change his mod anymore, but has anybody wondered why later civs like America and Turkey (and also for later civs in very low likeness RAND) don't get great generals to counter the super-experienced troops that olders civs get? In that way you can give some leeway to the player (or AI) which units they want to promote to maximize their efficiency conquering their own lands.
Some might disagree with this, but America would not have been possible without Washington, and I mean the general, not the President.

[Linkman226]

Turkey's powerful enough.

[Jusos2108]

I also don't think Turkey needs a Great General due to their technological superioty, but America would definetly need all the help it can get; maybe even two Great Generals. It is very annoying that United States constantly lose their first wars and capitulate to a European power. I would like to see them taking over the whole continent, including California, which they only get via congress nowadays.

[AnotherPacifist]

Actually, I mean Turkey for the 3000 BC start. If Persia or Babylonia are very strong, sometimes they don't expand at all.
And Arabia in the 3000 BC start can actually use a GG too--otherwise they just turtle in Jerusalem and the Arabian peninsula and there's absolutely no production there with bad commerce.

[Baldyr]

In my Russia scenario, I actually considered having the Russians only spawn with a Great General.

[astrognash]

I think America should get a Great General. Scripted, of course, to be named George Washington, for obvious reasons. So should the Mongols. They should get Genghis Khan. In fact, I like the idea of several civs receiving Great Generals at pre-scripted points to encourage expansion. Perhaps that way we could encourage Rome to actually expand in a decent manner. Yes, I know that that would trigger collapse if it expanded realistically, which is exactly my point.

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

I think America should get a Great General. Scripted, of course, to be named George Washington, for obvious reasons. So should the Mongols. They should get Genghis Khan.

Done!

Spoiler:

Add these lines into a PyScenario script:

Trigger(con.iMongolia).turn(240).units(99,51,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Genghis Khan",True)
Trigger(con.iAmerica).turn(346).units(27,46,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("George Washington",True)

It would be as easy to add Great Generals to other Civs... All the variables and values needed can be found in the Consts.py file and it is commented for you convenience.

[astrognash]

You should go into sales. You're quite the peddler of your own merchandise.

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

You should go into sales. You're quite the peddler of your own merchandise.

Not buying, then?

edit: But seriously, if someone specifies exactly what should go into a Great General Spawn mod-mod I could just make it for you. Then it would be a question of downloading and installing, not learning to use anything or editing any files. Because you still want to use this, right? (I just think its a neat idea, easy enough to do and why not do instead of just talking about it?)

[astrognash]

Originally Posted by Baldyr

Not buying, then?

edit: But seriously, if someone specifies exactly what should go into a Great General Spawn mod-mod I could just make it for you. Then it would be a question of downloading and installing, not learning to use anything or editing any files. Because you still want to use this, right? (I just think its a neat idea, easy enough to do and why not do instead of just talking about it?)

Oh, no, I bought. I've already started on putting in Generals, and even trying to simulate real wars. To make sure I'm doing it right, though, would the python I've enclosed in the spoiler accurately kick off a Punic War with Scipio Africanus?

Spoiler:

Trigger(con.iRome).turn(126).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=False).treaty( eCarthage, bPeace=False, bOpenBorders=False, bOverride=True )
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Scipio Africanus")
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,29)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,29)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,29)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,90)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check( bHuman=None, bDead=False).war( eCarthage, bWar=True).units(60,40,90)

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

To make sure I'm doing it right, though, would the python I've enclosed in the spoiler accurately kick off a Punic War with Scipio Africanus?

The only thing that is not computing with your script is that you use a undefined name/variable instead of a value for Carthage. I realize how you're thinking, but you've actually got it wrong.

Either change all instances of eCarthage to the integer value 6, use Rhye's constant con.iCarthage, or define the variable eCarthage as either of these (eCarthage = 6, alternatively eCarthage = con.iCarthage) at the beginning of the script.

Other than that, I see you've been copy-pasting methods from the API, which can be a good idea I guess. But once you get familiar with this you could actually omit arguments that you're not changing. Also, the application will recognize arguments as long as you use them them in the correct order. So this script would do the same thing:

Trigger(con.iRome).turn(126).check(None).war(con.iCarthage,False).treaty(con.iCarthage,False)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check(None).war(con.iCarthage).units(60,40,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Scipio Africanus",True)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check(None).war(con.iCarthage).units(60,40,con.iRomePraetorian,3)
Trigger(con.iRome).turn(127).check(None).war(con.iCarthage).units(60,40,con.iGalley,2)

Note how you can use the units() method to spawn several units at a time with the iNum argument.

Without complaining about your actual design work; what you've done should work (although its always advisable to test things) - but there is a more elegant way of doing the same thing:

punicWar="The First Punic War has broken out!"

Trigger(con.iRome).label("Punic War").turn(126).check(None).war(con.iCarthage,False).treaty(con.iCarthage,False).message(punicWar)
Trigger(con.iRome).fired("Punic War").turn(127).check(None).valid(bLand=False).units(60,40,con.iGalley,2).units(60,40,con.iRomePraetorian,3).units(60,40,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Scipio Africanus",True)

You could test this also just for kicks. Note the use of the valid() Condition - check the API entry for more details.

If all Actions would have been fired on the same turn, then everything could have been entered on the same line. This would have been more efficient (as there would be less Triggers to process) but quite cumbersome to edit, but there is another way of doing it with variable assignment. (Not covered in the documentation.)

# initialize the Trigger and add label
EventPunicWar = Trigger(con.iRome).label("The Punic War")
# add Conditions
EventPunicWar.turn(126).check(None).valid().war(con.iCarthage,False)
# add first set of Actions
EventPunicWar.treaty(con.iCarthage,False).message("The First Punic War has broken out!").popup(True)
# add unit spawns
EventPunicWar.units(60,40,con.iGalley,2).units(60,40,con.iRomePraetorian,3).units(60,40,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Scipio Africanus",True)

You could try it out also. I'll just stop here before I've done all you design work for you - which is the fun part. Testing it all is the hard work. You might also start a new thread about you Punic War scenario.

[Baldyr]

Oh, I realized I've omitted an argument from the flag() methods in this thread. I've corrected the above posts.

[nody]

Great generals at spawn are a great idea for these civs:

- Mongolia starts with Genghis Khan
- Turkey starts Osman I
- America starts with George Washington

In that same mod, you also could have the additional mid-game spawns of:

- Napoleon in France around 1800 AD
- Erwin Rommel in Germany around 1940 AD
- Dwight D. Eisenhower in America around 1940 AD

Special great general: Gandhi - Enemy units disappear at cost of 1 population in nearby city.

[astrognash]

Originally Posted by Baldyr

You could try it out also. I'll just stop here before I've done all you design work for you - which is the fun part. Testing it all is the hard work. You might also start a new thread about you Punic War scenario.

Thanks! Although I don't think I'll make a whole thread unless PyScenario starts working with RFCMarathon, which is much better suited to this type of thing. As is, I think I'll work it into a much broader Military Campaigns Scenario, creating not just Scipio Africanus, but Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte, and others.

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

Thanks! Although I don't think I'll make a whole thread unless PyScenario starts working with RFCMarathon, which is much better suited to this type of thing. As is, I think I'll just leave it with this spawn, also, with perhaps ensuring that Carthage founds some more cities, namely Qart-Gadir and a few others.

Yeah, there is always just one more thing to add...

RFC Marathon will probably become the next "version" of RFC anyway, so any future version of PyScenario will be built around it.

I could of course adopt the current beta-version to RFCM, but then I'd have to do it every time any of them are updated. So I think it'll be better to wait for a "definitive" version for both projects. But I don't think it would be hard to port PyScenario to RFCM anyway, so you never know...

Your own scenario script won't become obsolete however, so whatever you design today will (with a change or two) work with any future version also.

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by nody

Great generals at spawn are a great idea for these civs:

- Mongolia starts with Genghis Khan
- Turkey starts Osman I
- America starts with George Washington

In that same mod, you also could have the additional mid-game spawns of:

- Napoleon in France around 1800 AD
- Erwin Rommel in Germany around 1940 AD
- Dwight D. Eisenhower in America around 1940 AD

Special great general: Gandhi - Enemy units disappear at cost of 1 population in nearby city.

Are there any other requests out there?

If I do a proper modmod, there will also be text messages heralding the coming of these great generals.

[astrognash]

Hmmm... I'm working on spawning Alexander. There would appear to be a problem with my code, though. The message fires correctly, but then Alexander never spawned.

Trigger(con.iGreece).turn(117).check(None).units(66,44,con.iGreekPhalanx,2).units(66,44,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Alexander the Great",True)
Trigger(con.iGreece).turn(117).check(None).message("Alexander the Great has formed an army in Pella!").popup(True)

I don't understand what the problem is.

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

Hmmm... I'm working on spawning Alexander. There would appear to be a problem with my code, though. The message fires correctly, but then Alexander never spawned.

Trigger(con.iGreece).turn(117).check(None).units(66,44,con.iGreekPhalanx,2).units(66,44,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Alexander the Great",True)
Trigger(con.iGreece).turn(117).check(None).message("Alexander the Great has formed an army in Pella!").popup(True)

I don't understand what the problem is.

I can't see any problem with your script, and the units spawned when I tested it myself... Try again and be observant. Hopefully we can figure this thing out.

Two things, though:

You don't need two separate Triggers for this event. Just add the message() and popup() methods to the first one. (Both Triggers have identical Conditions anyway.) This also prevents a "split event" (even if this shouldn't be possible in the first place).

It is always advisable to include a valid() Condition to any spawn. Because otherwise there could be unforeseen outcomes, like an enemy unit blocking the tile or the target tile being the wrong type of tile (Peak, Water or Marsh).

Trigger(con.iGreece).turn(117).check(None).valid().units(66,44,con.iGreekPhalanx,2).units(66,44,con.iGreatGeneral).flag("Alexander the Great",True).message("Alexander the Great has formed an army in Pella!").popup()

Note that I removed the True argument from the popup() method, because it wasn't doing anything.

[astrognash]

Huh. It's still not working. I wonder, could it be because I'm playing as Rome, not Greece?

[Baldyr]

Originally Posted by astrognash

Huh. It's still not working. I wonder, could it be because I'm playing as Rome, not Greece?

Aha, a clue! How do you know that the units haven't spawned if you're not playing Greece? Because the AI could have moved - or even disbanded - them before you could check.

A tip, by the way, is to enable cheat mode an reveal the whole map (ctrl + z). Then you can actually see everything, peek into cities, get debug info on everything, and so on. But you might still miss some action that takes place between turns.

Other than that, I'll have to test your script myself with Rome. Because I noted that you are using the setting bHuman=None in check() - and this option is actually a rather new feature. (It should simply make the Condition not care about whether or not the target player is human.) It is possible that I made an error somewhere in code...

edit: Another idea for the cause: If Greece isn't alive on turn 117, then the check() Condition would prevent the Trigger from firing (as bDead=False). This would however not explain how one Trigger with identical Conditions can fire - but not the other one...