Try something different... try playing "Minor Nations Unorganized"

[kazapp]

Try something different...

...try playing "Minor Nations Unorganized", as I like to call it

In this challenge, you pick your comfort level of difficulty, only you play as the Minor Nations without a starting Palace.

Not getting a Palace for free when you settle your first city primarily means two things: 1) your research is severely reduced 2) your ability to expand is crippled (because there's no palace to deal with corruption). Hence the "challenge".
It also means one less happy face and no espionage, but those aren't nearly as crippling.

Fortunately, you can still build a Palace, and it's vital to this challenge variant that you do so ASAP. When you have a Palace, you join the "normal" civs, and you can move on to win the game.

However, there's a minimum number of cities requirement before you can build your Palace, and because you don't already have one, you will need to minimize the time between having the cities required until the Palace is built. Hint: hoard a few hundred gold before expanding - you will run at a fairly huge deficit once the necessary cities are built, but before the Palace is completed.

How do I play this variant?
Only attempt this if you're comfortable editing XML files.

1) Find your Assets folder.
On my computer, this is C:\Program Files (x86)\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Assets

2) Find your CustomAssets folder
On my computer, this is C:\Users\User\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\CustomAssets

3) Now copy the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file from your Assets folder to your CustomAssets folder before we edit it.
This particular file resides in the /XML/Civilizations sub-directory of the Assets folder, and you need to place the copy in the same place in the CustomAssets structure

4) Edit the copied CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file
I'm simply using Notepad. Remember to make the edits in the CustomAssets file!

The next to last civ defined in this file is the one we want. Do a search on "CIVILIZATION_MINOR" if you can't find it.

4a) About 8 lines down from the start of this definition you will find a <bPlayable> tag. Change the value from 0 to 1, to allow us to play the Minor Nations.

4b) Then follows a list of city names, after which you should keep an eye out for the following tag structure:

			<FreeBuildingClasses>
				<FreeBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PALACE</BuildingClassType>
					<bFreeBuildingClass>1</bFreeBuildingClass>
				</FreeBuildingClass>
			</FreeBuildingClasses>

This is what gives us a "free" Palace when settling our first City. To enable the challenge, change this to:

			<FreeBuildingClasses/>

In other words, replace the block with the above one line. Now, the Minor Nations don't get their Palace for free.

4c) Now save and exit Notepad.

5) Close Civ if running and restart it. The game is on!

You should now be able to select "Minors" as your Civ. After starting your first game, and basking in the glory of Sid Meier as your leader, settle in place. Choose your first tech - you should quickly realize research is hopelessly slow. Open your city window and confirm you have no Palace.

This means that you need to work out a strategy to get one as soon as possible. This would be a good time to check the Civilopedia for the number of cities you need. (I need four, including the capital, but this could possibly vary with the size of the map).

Now go win that map!

kazapp

PS.

Q: Why are we playing this as the "Minor Nations". Can't we do this challenge as the Zulu or whatever too...?

A: The Minor Nations start without any unique buildings, units or leader traits. As compensation, they start the game with all basic worker techs. You will find these come very much in handy when you tech so very slowly in the first part of the game.

I guess it's still possible to enact the challenge for other, regular, civs too. But depending on your starting techs you might have to do without any military unit better than Warriors (better bust that fog!), and/or find that any Workers of yours won't have anything to do. Starting with Hunting and thus a Scout can bring you crucial cash to enable your survival in the period where you are still building your Palace. Also, settling on a river might be mandatory to connect your fledging empire without roads, even when you manage to finish that Palace. But good luck if you want to try!

[oranje willem]

Will your first city still be your 'capitol' (for distance to capitol maintenance etc.)

[kazapp]

Originally Posted by oranje willem

Will your first city still be your 'capitol' (for distance to capitol maintenance etc.)

No - that's the challenge. Without a palace there is no capitol and hence very high maintenance costs.

That's why you will want to build a palace ASAP.

Once you've built a palace, that city becomes the capitol, and you should see costs return to a normal level, and you can take a breath of relief: you've survived the first part of the challenge - now you need to catch up to your rivals!

[kazapp]

My current strategy is to select Archery as my first tech - it's one of the few you can hope to complete in a reasonable time. Then I bust some fog with my Archers (or Warriors) while I build 3 Settlers.

I don't settle them until all three have been built (hence the need for some fogbusters), because of the horrendous maintenance costs of a four-city palace-less empire.

As soon as the third Settler is built, I settle them all at the same time and immediately begin construction of the Palace. Normally this will go faster in the original city than in any of the three new ones, but if you've managed to get Bronze Working, you could quite well whip it in any forest-rich city, if you think it's got a more central placement.

When you do settle the cities you need to build a Palace, you will haemorrhage money at an alarming rate even at 0% science, so you will need to start and complete the Palace very quickly. Better hope your initial Scout was lucky to find you a few hundred gold from goody huts!

[oranje willem]

Originally Posted by kazapp

No - that's the challenge. Without a palace there is no capitol and hence very high maintenance costs.

That's why you will want to build a palace ASAP.

Once you've built a palace, that city becomes the capitol, and you should see costs return to a normal level, and you can take a breath of relief: you've survived the first part of the challenge - now you need to catch up to your rivals!

How does it calculate the maintenance costs then? I mean... without a capitol the distance to capitol maintenance should be infinity or zero, mathematically

[z0wb13]

i've tried this, and it sucks. the palace gives you 8 research per turn. commerce, whatever. and you might get 2 or 3 more from tiles. but what happens in practice is that your early worker techs take so much longer to research that you waste time if you build worker first, and the rub is that if you want to build a few units first, you end up with a deficit almost instantly and striking units or no research.

i think that playing minor nations is hard enough on its own. it's easy to enable, and you can use the mod in my sig if you want. but no palace is really awful; i'd say it makes the game at least totally unwinnable at immortal.

[kazapp]

Originally Posted by oranje willem

How does it calculate the maintenance costs then? I mean... without a capitol the distance to capitol maintenance should be infinity or zero, mathematically

Well, I have tried it and it ain't zero... but it ain't infinity either.

Alternatively: I don't know the answer, but I do know the Civ engine does cope with the situation.

And so will you, as long as you make sure to have a healthy cash reserve before you settle the additional cities you need to start building a Palace.

[kazapp]

Originally Posted by z0wb13

i've tried this, and it sucks.

I believe the words you are searching for is "it's challenging".

Originally Posted by z0wb13

what happens in practice is that your early worker techs take so much longer to research that you waste time if you build worker first

Well, that's why I suggest to enable Minor Nations for this challenge. Normally, playing without any uniques and leader traits is supposed to be somewhat of a challenge in itself, but with a Palace-less start, I actually think Minor Nations are your best bet:

Unlike the "better" civs, playing Minor Nations ensures you will be able to work any seafood, game and crops you find; even with your abysmal tech rate. (Also unforested Gold/Silver/Gems, but such luck almost negates the challenge all by itself). You can pre-build roads to your intended expansion sites. You can build a Monument to be able to work your whole Big Fat Cross. Also, you're only one tech away from Archery, which just might be the difference between life and death on a map with Barbarians turned on. (Of course, if you see you can survive with a handful of fog-busting Warriors only, going for Bronze Working is much better, because you can then chop the Palace and minimize the time of catastrophic deficit)

If you play this variant using a regular Civ, chances are much greater there will be nothing for a Worker to do, which I agree will make things much more difficult.

Originally Posted by z0wb13

i think that playing minor nations is hard enough on its own.

Then by all means do not play this challenge, or try it at a lower difficulty level.

Originally Posted by z0wb13

it's easy to enable, and you can use the mod in my sig if you want.

Why do you say that? I have already shown you I know how to enable Minor Nations, with or without a Palace? (Respectfully, I need no mod to do it)

Originally Posted by z0wb13

but no palace is really awful; i'd say it makes the game at least totally unwinnable at immortal.

Again, I believe the words you are searching for is "no palace is really a challenge".

If you can't win this challenge at a certain difficulty level, you could try a lower one...? FWIW, my comfort level is "Monarch", and I have managed to survive the Palace-less period just fine several times at that difficulty level. (Proceeding to win the game is another matter; but once your Palace is up, most of your disadvantages are gone, and I am confident you have a honest shot at winning)

[z0wb13]

@kazapp: ugh. it's extremely challenging. and i don't like it. of course, it's a neat idea, and you did a very good job of how to mod the .xml file. the reason i mentioned my mod is that many people are adverse to editing game settings like that, but they probably wouldn't mind messing up my mod.

with regard to difficulty, i had forgotten about starting with all the first tier techs, which helps a tiny bit with the opening game. but then you are stuck. you can't afford to REX (although pre-building settlers sounds like a good idea) or rush. so you get out expanded by the ai, just like what would happen on hard difficulties. however, because you don't have any traits, now your mid-game is nerfed also.

anyways, have fun with it. it is a very challenging way to play the game, and it might give people the courage to start messing with their .xml's.

[Bibor]

I thought the game is lost when the palace is gone (even if there are settlers/units roaming around)?

[kazapp]

Originally Posted by Bibor

I thought the game is lost when the palace is gone (even if there are settlers/units roaming around)?

No, you lose when your last city is gone.

In other ways, you can lose your capitol (the city with your Palace in) just fine, and continue to play the game.

In fact, when you do lose your Palace, the game gives you another (for free) in a semi-randomly determined city. (I'm sure this happens to AI civs; not as sure it happens to the player.)

I haven't checked what happens in this variant if you lose your first city before you've built your Palace (if you get a free Palace anyway, if the code crashes, nothing happens, or what)