The best and worst abilities.

[Saint Rising]

So, I think we all can agree that the Ottomans and the Germans got the biggest shaft. Germans especially. I mean, after everything is all settled up, how many barbarians are going to be spawned. It might be useful for some early war-mongering, but later on it won't mean anything. The only way I can see it lasting is if you have a large zone where no one can get in, and barbarians can spawn indefinitely, and based on the unit cap, I can't see that being a viable strategy.

Ottomans have perhaps a slight advantage, but only on maps with much water. If barbarian ships spawn in the water and not at a seaside barbarian encampment, that is. Otherwise, the Ottoman Empire's Barbary Corsairs won't help much. However, Janissary are extremely powerful, by the looks of it, so that should offset this sad sad thing.

In my opinion, the most powerful two are the abilities for the Japanese and the Aztecs, with Japanese in front. Units at full power despite wounded could be extremely useful. Its like every unit is a Janissary. I know that if I see Oda Nobunaga right next to me, I'll start panicking.

Aztecs are in second, because if Monty is anything like he is in Civ IV, he'll be killing EVERYTHING THERE EVER WAS EVER. That means culture. Lots and lots of culture. That means he'll get the most powerful social policies. That means he'll get awesome bonuses and either get domination with ease, or just get the Utopia project done. It will be a great Utopia. As some 40k fans would say, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

So, what are your opinions on the strongest and weakest?

[ShaqFu]

I'm curious about something: If the German/Ottoman abilities read as follows:

"Every turn, there is a 3% chance a unit of the era will spawn in the capital"

What would you think of it?

[mmmfloorpie]

From the gameplay footage, I thought just the Samurai had the "fight at full strength even when wounded" ability?

[Saint Rising]

@ShaqFu Eh... that's a bit better, but three percent is pretty low, in my opinion. Then again, we don't really know the whole situation on barbarians yet, so maybe they function quite a bit differently from the Civ IV ones.

@Other Fellow Who's Name I Forget: Yeah, I typed a bit odd. Sorry for the confusion. They don't get automatically healed.

[Alsark]

Originally Posted by Saint Rising

The only way I can see it lasting is if you have a large zone where no one can get in, and barbarians can spawn indefinitely, and based on the unit cap, I can't see that being a viable strategy.

You know the funny thing? Even that won't work. The special ability only triggers (from how Arioch's site makes it sound), when you kill a barbarian inside of an encampment (in other words, when you take an encampment). So you can't wait for them to keep spawning.

I think you're right on about the weakest ones. As for the strongest, I definitely agree with Japan. Depending on how the mechanics work, China's ability and Greece's ability might also be pretty good - I'd have to see them in action. France's ability is also quite good, since it'll aid in some early social policy grabs.

[Dark_Jedi06]

Germany has the Panzer, that makes up for everything.

[WeaselSlapper]

Originally Posted by mmmfloorpie

From the gameplay footage, I thought just the Samurai had the "fight at full strength even when wounded" ability?

That bonus of for all Japanese units not just the Samurai

[Saint Rising]

Originally Posted by Dark_Jedi06

Germany has the Panzer, that makes up for everything.

Indeed. The UUs for the Turks and the Germs really do help to make up for the weak abilities. Good balancing, in my opinion.

[bhavv]

Originally Posted by Saint Rising

Indeed. The UUs for the Turks and the Germs really do help to make up for the weak abilities. Good balancing, in my opinion.

Thats kind of the whole point.

You need to look at all the civs unique abilities - UA, UUs and UB before considering how good or bad they are.

Even then, I likely wont ever play Germany or Ottomans in Civ 5.

[Saint Rising]

Originally Posted by bhavv

even then, i likely wont ever play germany or ottomans in civ 5.

The glory of the world is for the Ottoman Empire! Die, European scum!

[ShaqFu]

Originally Posted by Saint Rising

@ShaqFu Eh... that's a bit better, but three percent is pretty low, in my opinion. Then again, we don't really know the whole situation on barbarians yet, so maybe they function quite a bit differently from the Civ IV ones.

Given that the barbarian abilities are likely better than what I put out, it's a lot less worthless than you'd think. I don't understand the dislike of "get free units occasionally" UAs.

[Some guy]

No it doesn't. Situational bonuses eliminate too many options for the player. Having options is the most important aspect in any game..

[bhavv]

Originally Posted by Saint Rising

The glory of the world is for the Ottoman Empire! Die, European scum!

You can try to make an attempt to kill me, but my vast English navies will decimate your borders, and my longbows will unleash a rain of hell upon your inadequate armies

[Saint Rising]

Originally Posted by bhavv

You can try to make an attempt to kill me, but my vast English navies will decimate your borders, and my longbows will unleash a rain of hell upon your inadequate armies

When my Janissaries storm the shores of England and trounce your feeble riflemen, then we shall see who will have inadequate armies!

[Alsark]

I'll probably never play the following civilizations:

- England (I don't like navy, though the Longbowman is good)
- Germany (weak ability and I don't want to mass Pikemen, plus Panzer is too late for me)
- Persia (I don't focus much on getting Golden Ages [this may change in Civ5, we'll see])
- Songhai (they're too war-focused for me, and I'd pick Japan for war, anyway)
- America (units and trait aren't terribly appealing to me)

I will try the following:

* Arabia
- Aztecs
- China
* Egypt
- France
* Greece
* India
- Iroquois
- Japan
- Ottomans
- Rome
* Russia
- Siam

I starred Arabia, Egypt, Greece, Russia, and India because, depending on how gameplay works out, I'll likely "main" as one of them. Russia and Arabia are somewhat similar in terms of level for me - they have no real victory focus in mind but seem like civilizations I'd enjoy playing. Greece I'd play for Diplomatic victories and India, perhaps, for cultural victories (unless more cities is superior for cultural victories, which I'd then use France). Egypt suits my style because it's obviously more domestic-orientated than war-orientated (and I love wonders - and so many of them in this game are very useful).

I'll probably play as Egypt first unless Babylon appeals to me. Since Egypt grabs wonders more quickly, you can see them, in a way, as having more than one special ability since you'll practically be guaranteed a few wonders through them. Sure, a warmonger will say they'd just take the wonders, but I prefer to play peacefully and build them myself.

[Abremms]

i don't think you can look at the unique ability by itself. you're only getting one piece of the picture that way, weaker abilities are balanced by stronger units. like Germany, who the OP says is weak, it may be that their UA loses its usefulness as the game goes on, but then they get panzers to make up for it.

honestly, when you look at the whole picture and realize that each civ will take a slightly different play style, it all seems relatively balanced to me. i'm sore some glaring imperfection will show itself once we get our hands on it, but i think the groundwork is there.

[bhavv]

Originally Posted by Saint Rising

When my Janissaries storm the shores of England and trounce your feeble riflemen, then we shall see who will have inadequate armies!

You think you will even make it onto my shores?

My navy will crush your measly 2 movement transports dead in their tracks.

[Abremms]

Originally Posted by bhavv

You think you will even make it onto my shores?

My navy will crush your measly 2 movement transports dead in their tracks.

thats a very good point, map type will play a big role in how powerful a UA is.

Archipelago? England is going to hurt you.

Pangea? after England's longbowmen are done, they are at a disadvantage.

interesting dynamics, imo.

[bhavv]

Originally Posted by Abremms

thats a very good point, map type will play a big role in how powerful a UA is.

Archipelago? England is going to hurt you.

Pangaea? after England's longbowmen are done, they are at a disadvantage.

interesting dynamics, imo.

Yea, England will suck on Pangaeas. So will the Ottomans UA.

[cybrxkhan]

I'm interested in seeing how powerful China's UA can just be. Great Generals were something I didn't encounter too much in Civ4, but from what I remember, in Civ5, normal Great Generals give a +25% combat bonus to nearby troops. So, depending on how much stronger Chinese Great Generals are, the Chinese might well quite the versatile military civilization indeed!

I also think Egypt, France, and the Indians will make good all-purpose civs. Depending on how powerful city-states will be, Siam and Greece might also be quite powerful.


But I do agree that Germany's UA kind of is useless after the early stages, and that England's UA will be sort of useless on certain maps.