Trading with Humans

LaRo · Dec 02, 2002, 07:05 AM

When playing with Humans only, is there a way to know the value of techs you are trading?

Pembroke · Dec 02, 2002, 08:07 AM

When playing with Humans only, the inbuilt tech values are pretty much meaningless. The value of techs depends on the situation in the game, which is the best and the most correct way to value them anyway. The tech gold values are there for the poor AI, who needs some values to base its trade decisions on.

In a humans only game the entire problem disappears as humans know what to do with the techs. Thus they are worth what they will bring. Which probably wasn't the answer you wanted to hear.

"Which is the more fool: he who asks or he who pays?"

gonzo_for_civ · Dec 02, 2002, 10:09 AM

Yeah, you guys pretty much decide the value. If you have a friend under severe attack and you are more technologically advanced you could probably pimp off gunpowder or another defensive tech for quite a bit of money!

warpstorm · Dec 02, 2002, 02:37 PM

Trade my techs to another player? What a foreign concept.

RegentBob · Dec 02, 2002, 08:53 PM

too bad you can't just give your friends a few riflemen to defend their cities from attack without giving them the tech to build them for themselves.

you know the democratic (party) way, give them things to develop their dependency on you rather than the knowledge they might use to become more independent.

Sultan Bhargash · Dec 02, 2002, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RegentBob

you know the democratic (party) way, give them things to develop their dependency on you rather than the knowledge they might use to become more independent.

Ah, perhaps this is the elusive example of trolling in action I was looking for in OT! (You forget that the democrats gave missile technology to the Chinese while it was republicans who merely sold missiles to the Taliban!)

Back on topic, definitely you have to choose your tech values and choose them wisely. All of the games I am in so far with humans every one is acting like the AI, trading techs to get the game going and get us moving along. But there will come a day when nobody knows what I am researching...

Minmaster · Dec 02, 2002, 11:24 PM

they should make it so that you can see what techs other human players have that you dont have...often times i offer a good tech and all they offer me is pottery, and i know they have something else more valuable but i cant prove it.

Sultan Bhargash · Dec 03, 2002, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minmaster
they should make it so that you can see what techs other human players have that you dont have...often times i offer a good tech and all they offer me is pottery, and i know they have something else more valuable but i cant prove it.

You can at least determine what techs other humans have that you already have by the fact that you can't offer it to them. And if you are astute at the starting techs you might know early on what a civ has by default. But all in all, I like the extra layer of secrecy against human players. You don't know what they have but they also don't know what you have (although it is a fair bet they are working towards iron working, horseback riding, or fission!)
And that is from someone who really wanted to be able to have my advisors tell me what techs other AI civs were researching.

Hygro · Dec 03, 2002, 12:24 AM

In some ways the secrecy bothers me, in others I find it neat. However, I won't truely know untill I get the game (it FINALLY shipped)

Lt. 'Killer' M. · Dec 03, 2002, 05:16 AM

well I do NOT like the secrecy, since in a real world you can see people carry strange new things, wear strange new cloths and use strange new things (like bridges

)... that aspect is missing totally until you meet an advanced military unit....

on the other hand, stating the tech would also be bad - so what to do?

Maybe it should say 'they are 5 techs ahead of us'..... or 'they know a few secrets we do not' or 'we cannopt learn much from them' for say 7, 5, less than 3 techs difference....

Sultan Bhargash · Dec 03, 2002, 09:33 AM

Maybe the revelations could be sort of random and partially based on how close/how much interaction you have with the other civ. YOu could have a marco polo styel advisor come in once in awhile and say "In Germany they have a machine that produces books, identical to each other, over and over again! Maybe they would give us the secret if we showed them how we navigate" ...or some such.

But your right, it isn't necessarily realistic not to know. How about this regulator: if YOU build the embassy in an opponents territory before they get a chance to build an embassy in your territory, then you get the chance to see what techs they have. Yeah, I like that....

Pembroke · Dec 04, 2002, 03:55 AM

How about this: If you have a trade deal with another civ, and they have researched a new tech, then there would be a random chance of you hearing about it, i.e. a rumor styled message like Sultan Bhargash proposed. But with a catch. The rumor could be (by random) either accurate, exaggeretad (not the tech researched but one they are still researching), or totally false.

Implementing this with pop-up message boxes would be annoying, I think, but you could have a sub-window under the foreign advisor, or even a new one, that contained all the hearsay floating around.

This idea could be expanded to other interesting tidbits and newsflashes than just discoveries of techs, too.

"The gossip is the Turks have lost almost their entire military strength in their war against France."

Dec 02, 2002, 07:05 AM	#1
LaRo Dead Rat Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: on the road Posts: 486	Trading with Humans When playing with Humans only, is there a way to know the value of techs you are trading? __________________ ...

Dec 02, 2002, 02:37 PM	#4
warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snack Food Capital of the World Posts: 7,687	Trade my techs to another player? What a foreign concept. __________________ "Perfection is attained, not when no more can be added, but when no more can be removed." The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way

Dec 03, 2002, 12:24 AM	#9
Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 12,042	In some ways the secrecy bothers me, in others I find it neat. However, I won't truely know untill I get the game (it FINALLY shipped) __________________ I hope everyone realizes my comment was satirical. Spare me from having to put an emoticon after every damn post. -Whiskey_Lord I'm just an incredible poster. You name a topic, I have an opinion on it. Need confusing and unclear one-liners? I'm your man. -RedRalph

Dec 03, 2002, 09:33 AM	#11
Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Missing The Harem Posts: 7,608	Maybe the revelations could be sort of random and partially based on how close/how much interaction you have with the other civ. YOu could have a marco polo styel advisor come in once in awhile and say "In Germany they have a machine that produces books, identical to each other, over and over again! Maybe they would give us the secret if we showed them how we navigate" ...or some such. But your right, it isn't necessarily realistic not to know. How about this regulator: if YOU build the embassy in an opponents territory before they get a chance to build an embassy in your territory, then you get the chance to see what techs they have. Yeah, I like that.... __________________ "It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people." - Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

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Dec 02, 2002, 08:07 AM	#2
Pembroke Tribune Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 572	When playing with Humans only, the inbuilt tech values are pretty much meaningless. The value of techs depends on the situation in the game, which is the best and the most correct way to value them anyway. The tech gold values are there for the poor AI, who needs some values to base its trade decisions on. In a humans only game the entire problem disappears as humans know what to do with the techs. Thus they are worth what they will bring. Which probably wasn't the answer you wanted to hear. "Which is the more fool: he who asks or he who pays?"

Dec 02, 2002, 10:09 AM	#3
gonzo_for_civ Not too busy... Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,136	Yeah, you guys pretty much decide the value. If you have a friend under severe attack and you are more technologically advanced you could probably pimp off gunpowder or another defensive tech for quite a bit of money!

Dec 02, 2002, 08:53 PM	#5
RegentBob Chieftain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 60	too bad you can't just give your friends a few riflemen to defend their cities from attack without giving them the tech to build them for themselves. you know the democratic (party) way, give them things to develop their dependency on you rather than the knowledge they might use to become more independent.

Dec 02, 2002, 11:24 PM	#7
Minmaster Prince Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: California Posts: 492	they should make it so that you can see what techs other human players have that you dont have...often times i offer a good tech and all they offer me is pottery, and i know they have something else more valuable but i cant prove it.

Dec 03, 2002, 05:16 AM	#10
Lt. 'Killer' M. Deity Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,475	well I do NOT like the secrecy, since in a real world you can see people carry strange new things, wear strange new cloths and use strange new things (like bridges )... that aspect is missing totally until you meet an advanced military unit.... on the other hand, stating the tech would also be bad - so what to do? Maybe it should say 'they are 5 techs ahead of us'..... or 'they know a few secrets we do not' or 'we cannopt learn much from them' for say 7, 5, less than 3 techs difference....

Dec 04, 2002, 03:55 AM	#12
Pembroke Tribune Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 572	How about this: If you have a trade deal with another civ, and they have researched a new tech, then there would be a random chance of you hearing about it, i.e. a rumor styled message like Sultan Bhargash proposed. But with a catch. The rumor could be (by random) either accurate, exaggeretad (not the tech researched but one they are still researching), or totally false. Implementing this with pop-up message boxes would be annoying, I think, but you could have a sub-window under the foreign advisor, or even a new one, that contained all the hearsay floating around. This idea could be expanded to other interesting tidbits and newsflashes than just discoveries of techs, too. "The gossip is the Turks have lost almost their entire military strength in their war against France."

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