Caravels

[TheBackStabber]

Is it a good idea to build them? Or should I wait until I get to Magnetism? Caravels get a chance to be destroyed when on ocean tiles, so you have to keep rebuilding them. So I don't think it is such a good idea to spend hammers on caravels to discover other continents and civilizations. I would like to know about your thoughts about building them.

[vmxa]

I tend to built 2 curraghs and send them to cover al the land they can. Once they have gone over all the coastal tiles, I usually send them out to sea and hope for the best.

If I get to galleys prior to that point I will often make one as it has a better chance to make it. It is frequently the case that the curraghs ran into babrs and did not get the job done.

Caravels I tend not to make, but there will be games where it makes sense. Usually there is too much distance to the last tile exposed and too much open ocean to make it worth the trouble.

I presume you mean shields when you say hammers as that is civ4 and 5.

[Fiddlin Nero]

It depends on the map and how many civs are out there.

If you need them for peaceful expansion then there is no doubt.

Using them to make contact with the rest of the civs can make all the difference in keeping up technologically, no matter how many you lose to deep water.

[AutomatedTeller]

you can always research navigation and not worry about losing them.

or build the lighthouse.

[Fiddlin Nero]

That can be a long wait in which you can lose all hope of regaining Tech parity.

[AutomatedTeller]

well. getting navigation can mean getting to places the AI can't and making new friends that you can trade with. It can be an enormous advantage.

And you can trade it.

I'm not saying you should do it - it's an option.

[Ataxerxes]

Originally Posted by AutomatedTeller

well. getting navigation can mean getting to places the AI can't and making new friends that you can trade with. It can be an enormous advantage.

And you can trade it.

I'm not saying you should do it - it's an option.

Agree in part. Getting to another continent first can be a tremendous advantage. You can trade with them instead of your own continent. I feel more comfortable when my neighbors are as backward as possible.

However, I never research Navigation. Astronomy is a required tech and I can upgrade a galley and find everyone that way. It doesn't come much after Navigation. Although using it as trade bait I hadn't thought of - maybe I should try it out.

[AutomatedTeller]

Astronomy is required for navigation.

Navigation gives safe travel and trade over ocean, same as magnetism, which gives galleons. is that what you meant?

I should be clear - I almost always do the suicide curragh route. if you dont' want to do that, though, and dont' want to wait till Magnetism (which is one of the last techs in the middle ages), navigation provides much the same effect (and unlocks a wonder, if that interests you...)

[Nergal]

Caravels work fine for naval invasion and they upgrade all the way to transport too.

[Desertsnow]

I tend toward vxma's strategy, that is, build a couple curraghs to scout the coast, but I usually go with the suicide exlploration right off, and if it is successful, proceed to map the coast of the other continent. This gives more of and edge in trading maps or tech.

[darski]

I like caravels to finish my exploration of the world map as I never play above small. (did once and won't make that mistake again )

I also like that caravels can defend themselves. I have never had a win in a fight with a galleon against any other ship. but then my pRNG luck is notoriously bad.

I usually have the Great Lighthouse and the 5 move caravels are just nice little things to set out to Explore with never another thought to them.

[marceagleye]

If you are playing as the Portuguese you definitely DO want to build Carracks in place of the short-used Caravel. Carracks have the same attack and defense values as a Frigate but without the bombard capability. However, with the ability to carry three troops these ships are versatile enough to use however you see fit throughout the age of Sail. It is my opinion that these ships are MORE valuable than the Galleon because of the attack value.

[Desertsnow]

Don't get me wrong, I won't send more than one or two suicide curraghs (the ones I use to explore the coast). If they fail I'll usually wait for caravels for the suicide mission.

[darski]

Originally Posted by marceagleye;9820365[B

]If you are playing as the Portuguese[/B] you definitely DO want to build Carracks in place of the short-used Caravel. .

Now right away you are off in never-never land.

[marceagleye]

Really Darski? ";9820365[B?" That's never been part of my username so it looks to me like you're the one in never-never land. You may have 2200 posts darski but I've been a member of this community nearly 4 years longer than you have so don't think you can insult me and get away with it. You obviously must think I'm stupid so let me say it so a retarded monkey can understand. The general answer to Backstabber's quesion is NO. Caravels are generally not a good unit to build because their lifespan as the most up-to-date naval transport is too short. This, like all general rules-of-thumb, has exceptions. The biggest exception to this rule is if your civilization (Portuguese) has a Caravel-variant unique unit (Carrack). Got it?

[ChaosArbiter]

Dude, chill out. The number after your name is from the quote feature, which apparently got screwed up when darski tried to add in his bolding:

QUOTE=marceagleye;9820365

is what shows up inside the brackets if you quote your first post. Secondly, you are crassly overreacting, even if darski was insulting you - if you feel insulted, Report the post and let the mods know about it. Thirdly, the "la-la-land" remark is about using the Portuguese who, AFAIK, are considered something of a weak civ to play because of their traits.

[marceagleye]

Okay fine I overreacted. If you're saying the Portuguese means never-never land I didn't know that. Two of my three wins on Emporer came as the Portuguese so I don't draw a parallel with Portuguese and never-never. My third was as the Dutch I'll bet they are considered weak as well. darski if your comment was innocent I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I wouldn't report or complain to the moderator regardless of your intent.

[darski]

Originally Posted by marceagleye

Really Darski? ";9820365[B?" That's never been part of my username so it looks to me like you're the one in never-never land. You may have 2200 posts darski but I've been a member of this community nearly 4 years longer than you have so don't think you can insult me and get away with it. You obviously must think I'm stupid so let me say it so a retarded monkey can understand. The general answer to Backstabber's quesion is NO. Caravels are generally not a good unit to build because their lifespan as the most up-to-date naval transport is too short. This, like all general rules-of-thumb, has exceptions. The biggest exception to this rule is if your civilization (Portuguese) has a Caravel-variant unique unit (Carrack). Got it?

I am so sorry if the post upset you. it is a bit of a standing joke about how "challenging" the Portuguese are to play because their traits are at odds with each other.

Further, I did a series where I played every Civ in the game and the worst one I had to deal with was the Portuguese.

Again, I apologize for my poor formatting. I will def be more careful next time.
Oh And I have been a member since 2001 but I lost my old name and password so I had to start over again.

[Lanzelot]

Here is one point where Caravels can be very useful: assume your port towns don't have much shield production. (This is quite often the case, as coastal towns usually don't have as much shield production as inland towns.) But you need to produce a big fleet of Galleons quickly in order to prepare a large scale invasion of another continent.
So what I do in this case: in the turns before I finish Magnetism, I produce as many Caravels as possible (they are only 40s compared to 60s for Galleons), and when I get Magnetism, I upgrade them.

For example: for a total of 600 shields you can build 15 Caravels, but only 10 Galleons. So with this strategy you can increase the ship output of your harbor towns by a whopping 50%!! (Provided you have enough gold...)

[Spoonwood]

Originally Posted by marceagleye

Okay fine I overreacted. If you're saying the Portuguese means never-never land I didn't know that. Two of my three wins on Emporer came as the Portuguese so I don't draw a parallel with Portuguese and never-never. My third was as the Dutch I'll bet they are considered weak as well. darski if your comment was innocent I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I wouldn't report or complain to the moderator regardless of your intent.

The Dutch aren't weak. One of the first Sid game victories on record got played as the Dutch, as I believe you'll recall. Also, Portugal isn't weak. Portugal has an obscure niche, which most players don't care about. They come as one of the top-tier tribes for upper-level 20k games (with the exception of Sid level). If you didn't know, they currently have the number 2 spot on the Standard Deity 20k HoF table, and the number 2 spot for the Large Deity 20k HoF table. Though by no means are they necessarily the best tribe for such a game, they do have more potential than almost all other tribes for an upper-level 20k game.