Interface Gotten Worse?

renohol

Warlord
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
201
I finally tried playing Civ5 again after several weeks and got the latest patch and the interface seems more intrusive now. I like just being able to cruise through it and go with the flow but now it seems like more windows pop up now that I used to be able to disable. What I liked about previous Civs was the fact that it seemed like I could flow through games mostly by just using the mouse or keyboard for long stretches but it seems like the game now wants you to jump from keyboard to mouse every turn for reasons other than game play. I move units with the keyboard becasue if I send them off with a right mouse click it seems like the game gets ******ed and won't auto end turns any more for some reason. I liked how the old Civs building and tech trees would just pop up now you need to click to get the to, is their keyboard shortcuts I am not aware of? Please advise or post here too if you feel the game has lost fun because of deranged interface.
 
I don't know, personally I think the interface is one of the few things they got right with this game.
 
I don't know, personally I think the interface is one of the few things they got right with this game.

Really? Have you played alot of games of Civ 5 yet? I didn't seem to mind and I kind of liked it at first but I have been playing Civs since the early 90's so I have basically wasted my life but thats ok but i noticed after a few games of Civ Rev that it seemed like a bunch of crap was added just for eye candy or "neato" features that became pure annotances after a while that you couldn't disable like advisors rushing in every other turn. I hated Civ 2 when it first came out until i learned you could disable the advisors and loved civ 2 when the pack came out with the space and underworld mods included.

Maybe I've been playing too many freee browser games lately but for some reason it just seems like Civ5 has thrown in way to many worthless clicks or enter keys almost every turn and it seemed like I could disable some before the patch.
 
I prefer the simplicity of the CIV4 interface combined with the BUG MOD. All the info you could possibly want, readily available, and located right where you want it.....no frills, just gave you the info straight up so you could make a quick decision and move on.

Something needed production, the screen would jump to the city and the build menu would pop up automatically -- now you gotta click on the right side production symbol -- that's one extra click, click after click after click.....

You wanted to know about the enemy unit you spotted, then you'd just mouse over it, hit the right mouse key, and all the info you could want would would pop up right in front of your eye.

Now, you mouse over the unit, WAIT a few seconds, and even then you don't get all the info re: that unit.....if you wanna know more, then you gotta go to the help menu.....Or, if it's your unit you're curious about, then you can't just mouse over it, you have to select the unit, and then you gotta scan your eye to the bottom right corner, and do some hovering with the mouse down there if you want further info such as XPs.....lame.

I personally am not interested in the 'art-deco' interface....i don't need big icons with cartoon pictures and crap......i just want all the info i will practically need to make informed decisions at the mouse point and delivered right to my eye quickly.....i don't wanna sit there and wait for it or have to go digging for it.

I could go on and on with little gripes about the interface. But, I won't. I'm just glad that the modding community is already on it!
 
renohol I agree with you the UI in Civ5 is very poorly executed.

Many issues annoys me with the UI here some of them:

- City screen is messy and you cant find all info easily.

- In city screen worked tiles are not clear you need to zoom in and out most of the time to see the tile bonuses. And to assign a citizen to work on a tile you have to click on stupid icon above the tile not the tile it self, the icon sometimes is not clickable without zoom in or out.

- Very little tooltip info when you mouse over anything (workers, units ... etc)

- No detailed info screen for available trades and tradable resources like in CIV4

- Ugly icons , Civ4 icons where prettier ( for example bread icon for food was cool)

- No info screen for relationships between civilizations like in CIV4

- Till now I dont know how to check how many turns left for a deal with the AI to end.

- Too many pop up windows asking about everything

- Poor graphics for mines, trade ports.

- no info screen for all your cities as in Civ4 BTS, where you can see a list for all your cities with info like culture, populations, gold, science, hammers and current production.

- In game civilopedia is poor and lacks a lot of in game information.

- No info screen for wonders where you can check who built them.

There are many many other issues, the above are just what I recall at this moment.
 
I liked how the old Civs building and tech trees would just pop up now you need to click to get the to, is their keyboard shortcuts I am not aware of?

I agree that the interface in total is just a mess. Especially the constant switching between mouse and keyboard is a hassle.

Nevertheless, the list of cities of course can be retrieved via [F2] and the tech tree can be accessed vie [F6].
 
I don't know, personally I think the interface is one of the few things they got right with this game.

Saying that is such an abysmal joke that I can only hope you're kidding. This is the same UI that can suddenly swap citizen tile assignments between turns and starve a city, that neglects hotkeys, etc. If you consider that "right" you're about 30 years behind the gaming curve or so.
 
the interface in civ 5 is definitely significantly inferior to that in civ 4. broadly speaking i find that i have to click two or three times in civ 5 when i would have only had to click once in civ 4.

- City screen is messy and you cant find all info easily.

i think the city screen is probably the single biggest interface disaster in the game. a few examples:

-- in civ 4, to add something to the build queue all you had to do was shift-click the icon. now you click "show queue," then "add to queue," then the item, then "back," then "hide queue." that's 5 clicks instead of 1. i've taken to leaving the queue permanently open just to get rid of two of those clicks.

-- to move a worker you now have to open & close "citizen allocation focus" as well as the clicks required for the actual move. you also have to do this to see the yields of unworked tiles. they may have thought removing that display made it easier to see what was actually being worked, but it ends up making citizen management more cumbersome.

-- the building list on the right takes up a huge amount of space, mostly just for the picture circle and then a bunch of blank space. it makes sense for buildings with specialists--i actually like this feature--but making non-specialist buildings the same size is just clunky. moreover when you mouse over a building it still tells you how many hammers it requires even though that info is irrelevant now.

-- the great people bars also take up a huge amount of room if you've got a few of them in a city.

-- even if you've locked workers, if you start moving them into and out of specialist slots the game sometimes unlocks your entire workforce. i find that locked workers have been moved with alarming frequency.

- Very little tooltip info when you mouse over anything (workers, units ... etc)

i find it bizarre that the only way to find out how many XPs your own unit has is to select it and then mouse over the circle in the lower left. the F3 screen is also massively inferior to its equivalent in civ 4, as it doesn't tell you how many XPs each unit has, it doesn't show their names, and there is no way to find out where they are on the map.

- No detailed info screen for available trades and tradable resources like in CIV4

this has actually been added with the recent patch. go to the F2 screen and click the "resources" tab. it's still more clunky than the one in civ 4, but at least it's workable.

- No info screen for relationships between civilizations like in CIV4

i was just noticing that i have no way of telling what the AIs think of other AIs. of course i suppose this isn't as relevant to know as it was in civ 4, but it would be interesting.

- Till now I dont know how to check how many turns left for a deal with the AI to end.

go to the F4 screen, choose the "deals" tab, and then select the deal in question and mentally add 30 to the turn it started on. still clunky, but doable.

nonetheless the "deals" display is much more inconvenient than the same screen in civ 4, because all you see is a list of deals with different countries and the turn they each started on. thus if you want to see which one is your open borders deal with china, you have to click on all the deals you have with china until you find it. in civ 4 diplomacy the leader themselves would give you a list of all your current deals, and the deals screen summarized very quickly what you were importing from and exporting to a given civ.

- no info screen for all your cities as in Civ4 BTS, where you can see a list for all your cities with info like culture, populations, gold, science, hammers and current production.

that's the F2 screen. it nonetheless doesn't show great people production, and it doesn't let you sort by item being produced if, say, you wanted to group all the cities producing libraries.

- No info screen for wonders where you can check who built them.

that was added with the patch as well. go to F4, click "global politics" i think it's called, and it will list all the civs you've met along with the wonders they've each built.

another issue is if i have the F2 screen open and then open F3 as well, i shouldn't have to go back and close the F2 screen once i'm done with F3. and while i do like the idea of the brief display in the upper left, you can't toggle through by hitting just one button: you first have to close the one you're on before you can choose the next. i end up finding it faster to just hit F2 or F3. this need to close everything in civ 5 feels particularly cumbersome given that civ 4 proves that it's not necessary.

i realize the whole point of civ 5 is to not be civ 4, but given the large number of ways that the new interface is less efficient than the old, perhaps this is one area where imitation might be better than innovation.
 
The interface is certainly workable and you can get used to it. You do need to follow the instructions the interface gives you to (rather than the other way around) or else it fails. The logs and overviews were desperately poor upon release. You do need too many clicks. Events from previous turns are hard to recover.
 
I could go on and on with little gripes about the interface. But, I won't. I'm just glad that the modding community is already on it![/QUOTE]

Cool! I have never used a user mod before so I look forward to learning. Seems like I am not the only one who wants the game to flow to the battles and don't want to waste time with worthless clicks to get rid of worthless pop ups that constantly pop up in the middle of the screen and ruin any chance of developing game flow. Is my memory correct and weren't we able to disable alot of the middle pop ups before the last major patch? I really don't care to get a pop up every few turns stating i am 3rd in this or that as opposed to 5 unmet players.
 
Just started playing with the mod "CCMAT"....adds more info with mouse-overs, graphs, and a other useful interface options.....actually, it's a combo of many mods -- others add random events, balance changes and all that.....but you could sort through them at this link and just download the components you're interested in: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389368.
 
"I personally am not interested in the 'art-deco' interface....i don't need big icons with cartoon pictures and crap......i just want all the info i will practically need to make informed decisions at the mouse point and delivered right to my eye quickly.....i don't wanna sit there and wait for it or have to go digging for it. "

I actually like the art-deco but that's because I'm an art-deco fan but if it's the underlying cause of the huge delays I'm experiencing, then it's not worth it.
 
This is the same UI that can suddenly swap citizen tile assignments between turns and starve a city
That is definitely a pet peeve of mine, but that is not specifically a UI issue. Each turn (and when you open the city screen, I believe), the automatic placement of civilians is processed for each city, which redistributes them based upon your selection. They need to eliminate this from the related processes. The current work-around is just to lock them all down so they can't be distributed.

Now, they could add a check box for manual distribution, which would also address it. But it's that end of turn process that really screws it up.

I don't mind the UI that much, they just need to organize it better. There is too much mileage going on the mouse from the necessary cross-screen activities that need to be addressed.
 
Is my memory correct and weren't we able to disable alot of the middle pop ups before the last major patch?

Does anyone remember? Didn't we used to be able to get rid of the tech pop up in the center of the screen everytime we finished a tech?
 
I think Firaxis took a step back in terms of UI and controls.

No more shift-queueing orders to units, no ability to Ctrl/Alt/Shift click items into a production queue, no way to build things indenfinitely, multiple clicks to go through production queues or citizen deployment, no way to tell whether or not a tile is worked without going into the city screen, ... I could go on and on.
 
I actually like the art-deco

Yeah, my problem isn't with the stylization -- it's the fact that they seemed to have forgotten what the priority of the UI is. The UI is the vehicle by which the player and the game communicate back-and-forth. There is a feedback-loop between brain, eye, hand, to the game, and from the game back to the eye for mental processing...the priority in creating a good UI should be on ensuring that the communication loop is designed so that information can be quickly and easily accessed by minimizing the need for scanning around with your eye followed by numerous clicks with your finger.

The info that comes back to the player should be concise, complete, accurate, and placed in front of your eye. If my mouse is hovering over a unit, I shouldn't have to move my eye from the unit to collect the feedback info. The information accessed should be informative, I shouldn't have to gather info about a unit or a terrain from separate help screen that I have to go digging through. Again, that info used to be a right click away.

And at the end of the day, it's a really nice bonus if the UI looks good. In short, the aesthetics shouldn't be ignored, but the best looking interface in the world is only as good as its convenience, organization, and informativeness.


I seem to remember in C4, Sid Meier made commented on the need for games to eliminate pointless clicking and button pushing -- eliminate mechanics that waste the gamer's time....it seems that this principle was ignored or lost somehow in the move from C4 to C5.


The inefficient design of the new production queue is a great example of something that needs improvment badly--having to click to get into the production screen, again if you want to get the queue, again to add to the queue, then again and again to move items up or down in priority, then again to go back, then click to another screen to purchase, then again to purchase, then again to go back, then again to delete the now purchased unit from the production list -- then again to get to the game -- I dunno, that's like a dozen clicks isn't it?

you used to be able to accomplish the same with much fewer clicks.
 
I think Firaxis took a step back in terms of UI and controls.

No more shift-queueing orders to units, no ability to Ctrl/Alt/Shift click items into a production queue, no way to build things indenfinitely, multiple clicks to go through production queues or citizen deployment, no way to tell whether or not a tile is worked without going into the city screen, ... I could go on and on.

Agreed. A complete step back.
 
Saying that is such an abysmal joke that I can only hope you're kidding. This is the same UI that can suddenly swap citizen tile assignments between turns and starve a city, that neglects hotkeys, etc. If you consider that "right" you're about 30 years behind the gaming curve or so.

I agree with him. The UI is fantastic. A big improvement in my opinion.

and actually, less things pop up. In IV, when a tech was done or a build was done, the game would freeze and window would pop up demanding that you choose the next thing. In V, an icon simply drops on the far right that can be moused over or right clicked and dismissed...it's very clean. And I personally love the new icons and art style.
 
In IV, when a tech was done or a build was done, the game would freeze and window would pop up demanding that you choose the next thing.

You had an option to make each of those into a tab on the side of the screen. Click the tabs and you could deal with your tech and builds in any order you liked. It was much more discrete than the CIV5 interface but still clear and usable.
 
I didn't know that. Was that a mod?

You had an option to make each of those into a tab on the side of the screen. Click the tabs and you could deal with your tech and builds in any order you liked. It was much more discrete than the CIV5 interface but still clear and usable.
 
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