Hidden resources

[M07]

In the basic game, early we know all resources of the new world.
This system will change, now this will be the Indians who will permit us to discover those resources.

[Isabelxxx]

Does this mean that you can not buy these resources in Europe until its discovery?

[M07]

Does this mean that you can not buy these resources in Europe until its discovery?

Indeed you can't buy and you can't sell it. You will have some bonuses if you are the first to discover those resources. Europeans IA can also discover some new resources, that's why we will get some bonuses

[Isabelxxx]

Originally Posted by M07

Indeed you can't buy and you can't sell it. You will have some bonuses if you are the first to discover those resources. Europeans IA can also discover some new resources, that's why we will get some bonuses

Good implementation. Also I would add a minor but interesting point here:

When you said "we will get some bonuses" I suppose that these bonuses are set manually by you (or Dazio) somewhere in the files.
These bonuses will be the same in every game, in other words: every time we are the first to discover "cotton" for ex. we will get the same bonuses.

Considering that, there is a point I think can be improved:

After a few games you will already know what will be the bonus assigned to "x" resource. That will influence you to try to get some specific resources first. That is against the essence of the idea: it's the new World and all the resources should appear as something "new" to the player.
We loose that enchanting feeling if we can predict the bonus after a few games.

Also I think that as a general statement the aim of the mod should be maintain (or in this case: add & improve) that random point of the game; the possibility to see many different scenarios (not only in resources but diplomacy, events, secondary missions & objectives, ...) even when you play the same way you did in previous games.



After all the idea:


Create some arbitrary divisions for the resources which will be used to assign some of the basic or general bonuses:

• Raw materials
• Finished goods
• Tools and weapons

Then some sub-categories featuring different types of materials to which would be assigned more specific bonuses:

• Raw materials
  • Dry goods (textile)
  • Food and beverage
  • Construction and production material
  • Luxury goods
• Finished goods
  • Textile manufacturing
  • Food and beverage
  • Luxury goods
• Tools and military production
  • Tools
  • Weapons

And finally every resource in its place:

• Raw materials
  • Dry goods (textile)
    • Cotton
    • Fur
  • Food, beverage % others
    • Food
    • Sugar
    • Tobacco
  • Construction and production material
    • Lumber
    • Ore
  • Luxury goods
    • Silver
• Finished goods
  • Textile manufacturing
    • Cloth
    • Coats
  • Food and beverage
    • Rum
    • Horses
  • Luxury goods
    • Cigars
    • Trade Goods
• Tools and military production
  • Tools
    • Tools
    • Horses
  • Weapons
    • Guns
    • Swords
    • Ammunition
    • Cannons
    • Horses

Note that "Horses" is the only which is in different categories, it can be used as a production or military resource and it's not a standard raw material (there are requisites to obtain it).


After the categories the main point: dynamic bonuses.

Create a bunch of bonuses per categories. You can create some standard bonuses but whose value would be randomly set according to some variables in a specific range.
Some examples:

• Raw materials
  • +200 free gold.
  • +"x"% tools production.
  • 100 free units of tools.
  • 50 free units of tools.
  • 1 free colonist.
  • 1 free colonist with "z" proffesion.
  • "x" free units of "y" resource.
  • ...
• Dry goods (textile)
  • +"x"% gold in commerce
  • +"x"% tools production
  • 100 free units of cotton.
  • "x" free units of "y" resource.
  • ...
• Food and beverage
  • ...
• Construction and production material
  • ...
• Luxury goods
  • ...

That in every category and subcategory. Note that there are some generic bonuses for the big categories and then other for the sub-categories.

As you can see there are 2 types of bonuses: those which have been preset to give an specific bonus and those which use a "x,y,z" variable.
You can add a bunch of the first type and then the same with the second. The second would variate according to situation of the game.

For ex. the "x" assigned to percentages in the examples could be calculated in a range between (3-7) according to the score of the player, the turn, total commerce, or any other variable.


The idea is to create a great list of bonuses assigned to categories and sub-categories, some of them would be constant and others would be calculated depending on some variables.

Then some more specific bonuses per resource; again having in mind the previous considerations.


Finally, the bonuses we get when we discover a resource would be obtained from the list pursuant to which category and sub-category the resource belongs as well as the resource itself.

For ex. 3 bonuses could be given per resource. One from the main category, other from the sub-category and the last from the specific resource.

Given that it's obvious that one per class is more than the bunch of possibilities which would be available in the list, the bonus is chosen randomly out of them.


That would solve the problem and totally variate the results from one game to another.
The bonus we would get is [first] obtained according to the situation, [second] obtained randomly from up to 3 categories (main, sub-category & specific resource) and [third] the percentage of the bonus, the resource, unit, ... given would be set randomly or according to some variables. No possibility to see the same.



Note that this is not only improving the concept and the entire game-play but it could be expanded in other aspects in the future: imagine for ex. that you could merge some of the ideas related with the cartography concept as well as the secondary missions I suggested to make it even more interesting.

For ex. when discovering a resource the king could ask you to obtain "5000 units" of that resource as an economic aim. Then you would not only obtain the advantages of the resource but new aims or ways to try to win. When completing the objective some type of award could be given.

Also not only bonuses should be given (here and in all the aspects) but some disadvantages, or not considered as disadvantages but as social changes, long-term economic change, etc.
We should not always consider all these aims or new things discovered as something that only give us goodies but as events which change our colony. (for ex. in the economic aim suggested, it could give a +20% finished goods production but -20% military production.)



PD: Adding a few more resources would be great too. Also nt sure if it's possible but instead of always put all the resources on the map, some of them [the new resources] could appear randomly in a game or not.

I remember a mod that added a lot of resources; if you want to add them, let me know and I will try to search the pag.

[M07]

When you said "we will get some bonuses" I suppose that these bonuses are set manually by you (or Dazio) somewhere in the files.
These bonuses will be the same in every game, in other words: every time we are the first to discover "cotton" for ex. we will get the same bonuses.

I don't implement this code yet, but we didn't want to format the game, so I planned to give the bonuses randomly because there are not differences between the discovering of tobacco of and the discovering of cotton (for me).
In a game, our king can give us bonuses or not. In future version our king can give us some power(Power to built cities as we want, power to manage our economy, military power....), this power could be one of those bonuses.
Moreover, He can give us some gold coins, tools, ammunition, units or he can decrease taxes or increase taxes(if we have a nasty king ).
But I don't think we must add ( +"x"% tools production. +"x"% gold in commerce).

PD: Adding a few more resources would be great too. Also nt sure if it's possible but instead of always put all the resources on the map, some of them [the new resources] could appear randomly in a game or not.

We will add in the following version the cacao and the peanut, we wanted add the coffee and the indigo but after some research from Dazio he learned that those resources don't be discovered in America .

[Androrc the Orc]

Originally Posted by M07

We will add in the following version the cacao and the peanut, we wanted add the coffee and the indigo but after some research from Dazio he learned that those resources don't be discovered in America .

Indeed coffee was not discovered here in the Americas, but it became a major cash crop, like cotton.

[M07]

Indeed coffee was not discovered here in the Americas, but it became a major cash crop, like cotton.

Europeans discovered the cotton in the new world or they discovered it before and plant it in America for climatic reasons?
Because, currently I ensures that Natives make us discover the cotton.

[Androrc the Orc]

Originally Posted by M07

Europeans discovered the cotton in the new world or they discovered it before and plant it in America for climatic reasons?
Because, currently I ensures that Natives make us discover the cotton.

I recall both cotton being used by the Aztecs and being planted in Sicily, as well as India... perhaps it's native to both the New and Old Worlds? I said just as an example of a cash crop.

[Isabelxxx]

We will add in the following version the cacao and the peanut, we wanted add the coffee and the indigo but after some research from Dazio he learned that those resources don't be discovered in America .

All the resources should not be necessarily be discovered in America to be present in the game. Also these resources could be available at the start in the ports of Europe like any other common resource instead of being an "unknown resource" ready to be discovered.

It allows you to introduce new products which have been already discovered and therefore used in Europe and at the same time the resource is not necessarily available to be produced at early stages.
Cofee or Indigo weren't discovered there but were produced massively in America.

You can make them available for commerce and set high prizes at the start. The resource is hidden at this point (like in CIv 4 with cows before obtaining the proper technology), only available in Europe (or other ports if you decide to add Africa or something similar).

At some point (2nd era? or special event at 1st era) the resource "appears in the map" which allows its production when working that tile. Then the prizes start to drop.


This allows you to introduce a great variety of resources without any possible discussion about their origins, exactly what Androrc the Orc has noted.

I don't implement this code yet, but we didn't want to format the game, so I planned to give the bonuses randomly because there are not differences between the discovering of tobacco of and the discovering of cotton (for me).
In a game, our king can give us bonuses or not. In future version our king can give us some power(Power to built cities as we want, power to manage our economy, military power....), this power could be one of those bonuses.
Moreover, He can give us some gold coins, tools, ammunition, units or he can decrease taxes or increase taxes(if we have a nasty king ).
But I don't think we must add ( +"x"% tools production. +"x"% gold in commerce).

The percents were only examples, the idea was the random assignation of the bonuses according to some categories. Specially interesting the ideas related with the king.

Also consider the implementation of economic objectives.
Not only as a possible alternative to obtain a victory, i.e new victory conditions apart from military revolution, but as secondary objectives like quest in Civ4 and events; even why not the possibility to obtain a victory in military terms with a revolution but thanks to the economic advantage (in commercial or industrial terms) which gives you certain bonuses or units from other nations.
This is strongly related with this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...5&postcount=12

[M07]

All the resources should not be necessarily be discovered in America to be present in the game. Also these resources could be available at the start in the ports of Europe like any other common resource instead of being an "unknown resource" ready to be discovered.

The agronomist unit will be very important in the following version, indeed in first era or second our king will give us a seed of a resource that European knew before the discover of America. This seed can only be sow by our agronomist .
Moreover, Indians will can give us some seeds of unknown resources, those seeds can only be used by our agronomist .
I don't remember if I already said it, but I deleted all resources on the map(except the fishes, deers, crabs and marmots). We can't naturally found the tobacco on the map, however we can sow it when an Indian will give us a seed of tobacco.

[Isabelxxx]

I don't remember if I already said it, but I deleted all resources on the map(except the fishes, deers, crabs and marmots). We can't naturally found the tobacco on the map, however we can sow it when an Indian will give us a seed of tobacco.

No, you forgot it. Good news.