NiGHTS: General Discussion

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by CvsC

Oh my god...I tried and tried and... really was tired of verifying my files

then a thought...switched ingame language to english and no more description problem - the oracle, the GL and the social policy tree

Why not trying it earlier...?

Time for another domination victory with Bismarck


(and don`t forget "Winter is coming" tonight on HBO)

That... would make sense.

Originally Posted by iviv

Link to video.

Haha.

[dasvidania]

I really don't understand , why all AI attack me in the same time, 10, 15 AI in the same time and the war never ends !

I try "prince level" and a level below but the result it's the same. The only difference is that some AI give you a lot for the pace

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by dasvidania

I really don't understand , why all AI attack me in the same time, 10, 15 AI in the same time and the war never ends !

I try "prince level" and a level below but the result it's the same. The only difference is that some AI give you a lot for the pace

It depends on how you play. The AI is far less aggressive in the mod compared to vanilla - however the one thing that will set them off faster than anything else, is competition for City States, so if you're in competition with them on this front, you'll have conflict.

There's also a chance you have conflicting mods running, (and always remember to clear your cache folder and the contents of your ModUserData folder). Overall though, AI dogpiles happen FAR less than in vanilla.

[markusbeutel]

A few more things that've changed in v11.8 that I hadn't documented earlier but should be taken into account:

• The AI, who maintain their brisk expansion pace from v11.7, focus more on production/gold and less on science. This makes a tall strategy (which would be around 5-8 cities in my opinion) more of a viable option than it was before, provided you take proper measures (Rationalism policies / early libraries and universities / scientist specialists whenever possible / early mines and RA's).
  
  
• The worse off an AI is in regards to their starting position (tundra/snow/desert) the faster they will expand. So while Hiawatha might have 15 cities to your 8, his population per city will most likely be proportionately smaller per city compared to v11.7, at least until he researches specific techs that boost the food output of farms (Feudalism, Fertilizer, and Refrigeration).
  
  
• Gold is much tighter and will take more skill to manage, especially if you don't have a Civ with a unique bonus and/or buildings that have gold or golden age benefits. The Commerce branch will still provide a quick gold windfall when you initially start to struggle in the classical/medieval eras, but trading posts are now a much more viable option (especially when placed adjacent to cities, where they get a +1 gold bonus each).
  
  
• The AI gets a 30% Happiness bonus across all difficulty levels and map sizes. This is as low as I could possibly make their Happiness bonus without having them fall into consistent rebellions (although you'll still see them happen). Larger AI Civ's will generally have a stronger happiness buffer, while smaller AI Civ's will usually struggle to some extent.
  
  
• The AI better factors there current needs into what Governments they adopt during revolutions. If they're struggling for money, they'll most likely adopt Oligarchy - where in v11.7, their choices were more of a crapshoot.

[headcase]

Sound like good changes all around, thanks Markus

Any suggestions for someone going into a huge map with NiGHTS? (Time to push the new PC setup).

[donut]

First off, thanks for making the mod. Always amazes me that someone with one pc (i know there are usually multiple people working on the mods in some way, but for argument's sake) and working on your off hours for nothing can make a comparable, better most of the time, game than a company with multiple people, state of the art equiptment and large budgets . Somehow we need to get the business of making games totally secondary (ease up on deadlines and get the game right) to creativity and ingenuity. Rant over. Sorry for sullying my gratitude towards you with my soapbox.

Had trouble with downloading this. 90% chance it's user error. Going to wait til it hits the ingame mods screen. When it does hit there, will the instructions be the same to download or will Steam take care of it?

Thanks again for your time on this. Played a little of 117. Looking forward to 118.

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by donut

First off, thanks for making the mod. Always amazes me that someone with one pc (i know there are usually multiple people working on the mods in some way, but for argument's sake) and working on your off hours for nothing can make a comparable, better most of the time, game than a company with multiple people, state of the art equiptment and large budgets . Somehow we need to get the business of making games totally secondary (ease up on deadlines and get the game right) to creativity and ingenuity. Rant over. Sorry for sullying my gratitude towards you with my soapbox.

Had trouble with downloading this. 90% chance it's user error. Going to wait til it hits the ingame mods screen. When it does hit there, will the instructions be the same to download or will Steam take care of it?

Thanks again for your time on this. Played a little of 117. Looking forward to 118.

Clearing your cache folder and ModUserData folder usually solves most bugs - (as well as deleting all old versions of the mod). I will, though, be uploading to the mod browser later tonight, and that version will include a few additional bug fixes. As long as you've deleted previous versions, that should install fine just from the in game browser.

[donut]

Originally Posted by markusbeutel

Clearing your cache folder and ModUserData folder usually solves most bugs - (as well as deleting all old versions of the mod). I will, though, be uploading to the mod browser later tonight, and that version will include a few additional bug fixes. As long as you've deleted previous versions, that should install fine just from the in game browser.

Great. thanks.

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by headcase

Sound like good changes all around, thanks Markus

Any suggestions for someone going into a huge map with NiGHTS? (Time to push the new PC setup).

I rarely play games on huge maps as my pc struggles enough on Standard maps. I would think that on higher difficulties especially - it's going to be a struggle to keep up with the AI's rate of expansion, so you might have to push the pace compared to your normal expansion rate.


v11.8 re-released to http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=16650 and to the in-game ModBrowser.

Minor changes in this re-release:

• Explorers no longer require a Barracks to be built (was preventing Scouts from upgrading to them outside of Cities with a Barracks).
• Colosseums no longer require a Barracks.
• Solar Plants no longer have a maintenance cost.

Saves won't carry over, and if you experience any other bugs, both with the Civfanatics version and/or the ModBrowser version, make sure to delete old copies of the mod, and...

IMPORTANT: DOWNLOAD/INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS!
Note that the following locations could differ depending on where you've installed CIV V.

1. Download and copy file into C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS
2. Delete your cache folder in C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache
3. Delete the contents of the ModUserData folder in C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\ModUserData
4. Verify your cache and defrag your CIV V files through Steam (right click, properties, local files, verify integrity.
5. Make sure your game is up to date with the December 2011 patch!
6. Load CIV V and click Install button in the ModBrowser.

[Royco]

Love the changes.

But want: More of thals UI and faster movement speed.

Im not so sure about the poss to build those landmark improvements, isnt it a huge advantage if u rush for those?

Also got a few games now were it just stops....didnt bother reloading it though.

What about diplomacy? Cant remember if this is compatible with that diplo mod?

[looorg]

Originally Posted by markusbeutel

I rarely play games on huge maps as my pc struggles enough on Standard maps. I would think that on higher difficulties especially - it's going to be a struggle to keep up with the AI's rate of expansion, so you might have to push the pace compared to your normal expansion rate.

The issue with larger maps is usually not the map size or the amount of cities. It's all the troops/units that follows with them and that the AI insists on moving them or reissuing orders ever turn. After a few hundred turns that really starts to bog down the game speed. Probably nothing that can be done about that, unless there is some easy to toggle option for it, unless they somehow magically fix that in the next expansion, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

(edit) Damn, I just noticed that the new version of Nights broke 'Promotion Revised - Basic' (mod to make all the promotions work for all terrains instead of just specific once, usually more of a problem with units that jump between melee and archer/range then others but it was still very nice to have).

[Balerune]

Just to be certain: squires don't exist anymore? One tooltip says they are available after Nationalism but Nationalism doesn't mention them and they don't appear on the list in cities with barracks when I've researched Nationalism.

Thanks.

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by Royco

Love the changes.

But want: More of thals UI and faster movement speed.

Im not so sure about the poss to build those landmark improvements, isnt it a huge advantage if u rush for those?

Also got a few games now were it just stops....didnt bother reloading it though.

What about diplomacy? Cant remember if this is compatible with that diplo mod?

What specifically from VEM's UI would you want added? Also, how much faster is the movement speed in that mod? As for the landmark improvements, they're a ways down the tech tree, and they're not overpowered for what they offer. When factored into your overall economy by the time they become unlocked, they probably make as much of a difference as improvements in the ancient/classical era.

Never been compatible with Gazebo's city-state diplomacy mod, (if that's the one you mean). I'm not convinced the AI uses that mod effectively, and it also messes up their gold reserves in the middle/late portions of the game when they should be rush-buying or investing in other areas.

Originally Posted by looorg

The issue with larger maps is usually not the map size or the amount of cities. It's all the troops/units that follows with them and that the AI insists on moving them or reissuing orders ever turn. After a few hundred turns that really starts to bog down the game speed. Probably nothing that can be done about that, unless there is some easy to toggle option for it, unless they somehow magically fix that in the next expansion, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

(edit) Damn, I just noticed that the new version of Nights broke 'Promotion Revised - Basic' (mod to make all the promotions work for all terrains instead of just specific once, usually more of a problem with units that jump between melee and archer/range then others but it was still very nice to have).

Hmm - so the mod worked previously with the "Promotion Revised - Basic" mod? I ask because I haven't really changed anything regarding promotions...

Originally Posted by Balerune

Just to be certain: squires don't exist anymore? One tooltip says they are available after Nationalism but Nationalism doesn't mention them and they don't appear on the list in cities with barracks when I've researched Nationalism.

Thanks.

Ahh - thought I got rid of all those tool-tips referencing them, (missed the one for Barracks). But yes, they don't exist anymore as Squires - they're now "Explorer" units with terrain bonuses like Scouts, (and Scouts upgrade to them). Good find.

[finejam]

Originally Posted by markusbeutel

Saves won't carry over,...

So, you will not be able to load a 11.8 savegame, after installing this minor release 11.8a?


ps: great mod, thanks!!!

[markusbeutel]

Originally Posted by finejam

So, you will not be able to load a 11.8 savegame, after installing this minor release 11.8a?


ps: great mod, thanks!!!

You will - but you'll probably come across a bunch of bugs at some point.

[Royco]

It seems to be twice as fast unit movement speed, something that really streamlines the gameplay alot.

UI wise its just minor things that is fixed on, trade screen...... damn I cant think of anymore right now, so not so important then

[ouyeah]

Been playing a lot with NIGHTS recently and there is one thing that really bugs me : the tech tree.

I think the tech tree is a mess. You often find yourself with around 10 different techs available to research which is too much IMO. Worse : most of the time you can research a tech without the prerequisites as they appear in the tree. This often leaves you with many early techs back from previous eras.

While i'm here another thing bugs me : buildings. There are a lot of them, which is good, but sometimes it is unclear as to why you would build this building over this one. I know you can make a choice from which ressources your city has, but still, many buildings give quite the same benefit for the same amount of gold. This leaves you with a huuuuge building list just sitting there because you have no reason to build them. Its kind of a waste IMO. I suggest you make buildings more dependent on each other, with clear lines of buildings purposes (gold, culture, production, etc). For example Monument -> Temple -> Monastery -> abbey -> Cathedral. Each building can not be built if the former is not.

Beautiful mod, you might need to tidy it up a little bit

[civvy1]

Markus: V11.8 is fantastic! (I have the pre re-release version, but my current game is too good to lose in the update... )

I find it overall very well balanced. Money is a challenge but not too much so. AI's seem to act in semi-logical ways. Buildings are pretty unique (not too much overlap). To ouyeah's point above re buildings, I guess you could add a few more pre-requisites to cut the list down somewhat, but to be honest I don't find it bad at all.

Great job! Thanks for all your work on this!!

[pauli]

assassin unit needs an icon - i play in tile mode, and the unit is totally invisible. which is great (he's an assassin, after all), except that it's not.

[looorg]

Originally Posted by markusbeutel

Hmm - so the mod worked previously with the "Promotion Revised - Basic" mod? I ask because I haven't really changed anything regarding promotions...

Well it's one of those slighlty weird things I guess. I'm not 100% sure it actually ever worked or did anything before either. I assume it did. What I think that the mod did was to change the distinction between OPEN and ROUGH terrain and made them the same promotion wise. You still trained two different promotions but they both acted on ALL terrain instead, which ment if you had 3x in each (3 drill, 3 shock) you had 6x combined.

On the other hand, as noted, I don't actually know if it actually did that, for all I know all that it might have done is to change the tooltip and the tooltip/attack calculations that where displayed. That on the other hand did work before but doesn't work anymore. If any actual fight calculations are changed or not I don't actually know.

So it might not have been a promotion change but a tooltip change. Perhaps it's still working and I just don't see the calculation-changes anymore.

I just thought it was a very nice mod since I really dislike the distinction between the two, certainly for troops that change between being melee and range like horse units and archers.


edit; some further testing. I think it's actually still working as it did before. It might just be the tooltip that isn't updating as it did before. I tried this with a cannon with only the accuracy promotion and mouse:ed over units standing in different terrains and it changed the named terrainbonus (from open to rough), accuracy only supposed to have vs open, with the same % bonus value. So it would appear to be the tooltip failing in name (it used to say ALL terrain but it doesn't anymore).