Project Announcement:Babylon 5 and/Star Trek Scenarios

[TheDarkling]

The Romulans while strong are behind the Federation tech wise, the Galaxy Class (which isn't a pure warship) is roughly equivalent to a D'deridex Warbirds (slightly less but not by much).

I would equate a D'deridex Warbirds to a War Galaxy Class with the Federation gaining the edge in this case.

However the much more warlike Enterprise E refit seen in Nemesis would defeat a warbird (prehaps 2 or even 3 at the outside) with ease.

On the cloak - its always been a move counter move situation with the Romulans developing a new cloak and then the Federation getting a sensor upgrade and so on.

The singularity power cores while being far more stable than a warp core (and probably create less emissions) don't generate the same sort of energy (as witnessed by the Romulan inability to cloak well while at warp and their limitation to slower warp than Federation mainline ships).

The Romulans have they best tech on their ships and they have a good fleet size, the Federation has outdatted, under gunned ships with a far lower ships count than it could have with the increase of threats to the Federation they increase in these areas and the Galaxy, Nebulas and Akira seeming to now make up the bulk of the federation fleet.

[LesCanadiens]

Why should the Cardassians production be shot? First of all, the massacre only occured on Cardassia, when they were surrounded and communication cut off from the rest of Dominion forces. One world, out of thousans. Not really significant production loss.
Besides that, the hundreds of shipyards that were set up in Cardassian space were left there for the Cardassians to own, giving them a huge shipbuilding capacity.

[TheDarkling]

Cardassia Prime was wrecked, the colonies that had been occupied by the Klingons 2 years earlier were no doubt in bad shape knowing what captains of industry the Klingons are.
Chintoka was probably also in a bad way, several ship yards had been hit and the first Romulan offensive destroyed 15 bases.

We also know that before these events a civilian led coup had occured, I doubt this was bloodless although in the end the military switched sides to support the new civilian led government.

Dukat said before the war that Cardassia had become a third rate nation and it was true they were having problems holding the DMZ against a bunch of ill equiped rebels, they kept capitulating to the Klingons on issue after issue just to maintain the desperate peace.

I also doubt that the Dominion simply left its tech out there for the Cardassians to have, not to mention that the Romulans and Klingons probably demanded war reperations from Cardassia who would have no optiion to agree.

I'm also not sure I will peg Cardassian worlds in the 1000's the Federation only has a few 1000 worlds and its far larger than Cardassia (and out techs them, by a large degree).

Cardassia was gutted and I suspect that only the good graces of the federation will keep them safe and enable them to keep their people fed (although again for game purposes this should be off set somewhat).

Several of their "cities" (in game) should display recent occupation and thus have production problems, I would also recomend that terrain improvements should be gone in those areas to an extent.

[Ottooo]

Map of Bajor: just the planet, no space

Resources: make Wormhole entrance a resource which generates lots of trade (=gold), because before discovery Bajor was a planet on the outer edge of the AQ, after it became a large trading planet. Sort of
Then you don't have to decide if you'll put the wormhole in, but at least the entrance.

Badlands terrain: something like mountains, with movement cost, etc.
Maybe a few Nebula's.

Small races:
Just thought about the Son'a (Insurrection), they should be a small race as well.
And what about Bajor, make them a new civilization, or a part of the Federation? Because they won't be part of it until three years after the dominion war (DS9 relaunch book: Unity, release this April), but that is non-canon...

[Ottooo]

I will soon go expirementing with Rhino 3d, so maybe i can make a couple of units, but at the moment i'm pretty busy with school

Maybe for trading between cities/planets you could modify airports, if you choose to use land as the space terrain. This way cities could still trade and stuff, without having roads (roads in space?????).

And about city-building: only on planets, make space terrain like mountains, where you can't build any city on.

And replacing the Airport or Fortress with space stations, like DS9, that would be a good thing, me thinks

[LesCanadiens]

Um, in the last episode, Sisko states that the Shapeshifter Female will stand trial for her crimes, which implies reparations to the Cardassian people, such as TECHNOLOGY, SHIPYARDS, MILITARY VESSELS, ETC.

[TheDarkling]

She was arrested by SF and would probably serve out here time in a federation prison.

The cardassian people will be giving reparations if anything, if you look at when the treaty is signed there is only two cardassians present way in the back behind station personel - they have no representation around the table like the Dominion,Breen,Klingons,Romulan and Federation.

The treaty is between the Dominion and the Federation alliance, the Cardassians are a member of neither group and would therefore have to bargin with what they had (very little), they would need the Feds to keep the Klnigons and Romulans in line.

Do you think the AQ powers would have allowed the Cardassians to keep Dominion technology or that the Dominion would have allowed such a thing?

[sela1s1son]

Ottooo hmm... Isn't it possible to make three different fortress terrain improvements with different images? (Although I'd advise compining the Airport/Fortress feature into one... to procure resources) So couldn't we essentially have a Feddie Starbase, a Rommie Starbase (based on Armada's R. Starbase), a Nor (Cardasian Mining Station/Starbase (depending on it's location)) etc... That'd be cool! We could also (taking another concept from B.o.T.F.) have Construction ships of some sort which basically are used up when building this.

Yeah Roads in space looks cheesy, (although for B5... Hyperspace routes would make sense) so Airports *are* the way to go.

Another thing we should consider is making a Rommie Starbase that could be placed on the Blackholes (allowing them to harvest Singularities) and nab them to.... that way they have the advantage there (even if someone gets the tech) and can have an edge on the market of those (and they'd have less/no need for Dilithium so they'd be able to trade that as well...)).

The Ferengi should have a lot of luxeries... I can't remember who had that idea right now, but it is a great one.

What should the Klingons, Feds, and Ferengi really have in the way of luxeries?

Also the Wormhole mouth 'resource' (Kinda like wheat I guess) is a great idea. I think the Bajorans should be represented. We have some data on thier vessels (which would likely be cheap compared to the Big 3's Battleships) so we can make them. They'd be a challenge. To bad we can't pre-progam diplomacy and make them have strong ties to the Feds, and to a lesser extent...the Klingons.

Breen, should be in there. Also, if we could represent a few of the smaller powers, it'd be cool to throw them in with little territories. Potential victims, or play as them and have to rise your 'nation' to a worl...err... Galactic power. That'd be fun!


As for Cardassia being Macho:Sorry, no. While the Fed Alliance may be rebuilding them (note... Rebuiliding) they are not in any way uber. I liken them to Germany or Japan after WWII. Not much there, possibly former territory lost (maybe to the Klingons, or Feddies getting the DMZ back) However, thier economy is probably in the trash, the industry destroyed, etc... While a few worlds on the far side of thier space may still be good... if anything Dominion had been there, it's not there now...

Sorry, but the Cardies were knocked down a peg or two compared to where they were before the war. Before the war, they'd been among the top 5 (they'd rank four in my book). After, they are such a damaged state the Ferengi may be better off...

Ranking the powers in my view would be as follows:
Romulans and Feds would be pretty close. Each has advanatages in certain areas.
Klingons
Cardies (once they get back on thier feet again)
Ferengi (these two not to distant from each other).
Breen
Bajorans (The station/wormhole really helps them here! Plus thier allies make a big difference.)
Gorns and Tholions are somewhere in here... probably falling behind.


Also'deridexes most likely have better weapons then a Galaxy, but I think the Galaxy would probably have better shields (Those Plasma Storms can be nasty! ;-) ) With the newer Romulan ships (Norexan, Predator/Scimitar type) we can see the Romulans didn't stagnate... and that if they converted all the D'deridexes to Norexans over the next decade... they'd probably be ahead again... but thier fleet is probably mainly D'deridexes still.

The Federation also has a large number of other ships:Nebula class, Probably a lot of Defiants now, Akiras, Steamrunners, etc.

While the Steamrunner and the Nebula may not defeat a Vor'cha or Warbird.... three or five of them could (sounds kinda Soviet... throw more men at them!)

Anywhoo, the Feds will be fun... so many choices! However it'll be harder to reflect this in Civ 3... :-( I wish we could do more to represent why a Nebula may be better then a Galaxy in some cases...

[TheDarkling]

Well torp Nebulas have a much larger ability to deploy torps than a GCS so maybe give them a bombard attack as welll as them being an ok unit in regular attack, so while slighly less in regular combat than a GCS a Nebula would have some advantages.

[Ottooo]

about the fortresses

the only way i know of to get different fortresses is by putting the civilizations in different Era's...

Or maybe making a radar a sort of fortress (?)

But i think radars will be very usefull as sensor array's or something like that.

I think however that starbases should be airports, because airlifting to a starbase would be a nice option, like beaming in
Although the drawback offcourse is unlimited distance...

i'm thinking about buying that star map book i mentioned earlier, so that information will be avalible soon

luxeries:

Ferengi should off course have loads of Latinum

Wormhole resource: maybe not Wheat, but more like gold or something, because gold generates loads of cash.

Wonders:
Any ideas for wonders?
I have a few ideas, which should already be in the cities/planets when beginning:

Bajoran Wormhole (Bajor): Some sort of Collosos, generating lots of trade.

Starfleet headquaters (Earth): i dunno, maybe U.N. ?

[TheDarkling]

The UN is more of a UFP Council.

SF Academy would fit better as Art of War I think.

[Ottooo]

i asked for help with making the scenarios on a Dutch ST site (www.startrek.nl), so hopefully we'll get some more people and ideas here soon

[sela1s1son]

I was just using Wheat as an example (as in not Strategic or Luxery)

Did you use PTW to try to add multiple Fortress variants? I'd have to look at the editor again... Rome in the Modern World II made me learn A LOT about scenarios/modding.

Wonders:
Tower of Commerce (Ferengi) Dunno effects Economic obviously

Romulan Senate: ???

UFP Councl:??? (UN is an idea here!)

Tal Shiar (Romulan) CIA + Pentago

Obsidian Order CIA

Utopia Planetia:
Some sort of Industrial bonus for ship construction or something...

Central Command (Cardie Pentagon)

Starfleet Command (Feddie Pent)

Romulan Astrophysical Acadamey

Vulcan Science Acadamey

Ferengi Commerce Authority

Klingon War Acadamey

Starfleet Acadamey

Something like the last two for the Rommies (there might have been one mentioned)

Klingon High Council

Hmmm... For some reason it seems like I'm forgetting some...

The nice thing with PTW is we can simple take them all as Great Wonders and put them where we want them.

Small Wonders:
I'm bewildered here... any ideas?

[sela1s1son]

Sweet! Thanks Ottooo! I may (not sure yet) have one or two people willing to help as well. One person may be able to help with graphics , the other may also be able to graphics and it seems like he has a few Civ 2 scenarios to analyze...

Once we get the main scenario down, it'd be pretty easy to convert to other scenarios if we wanted to... like Post-Nemesis...

Gotta go eat... This is looking good!

[TheDarkling]

Tower of Commerce - Colossus ??

The Feddies could have the Daystrom institute for science, thats spoken about more than the Vulcan science academy although we don't know where the institute is located (it has a few annex's on different worlds).

The Romulan equivalent to SF academy is the Imperial War College.

[sela1s1son]

Yeah I forgot the Daystrom institute, and the Imperial War College.

IIRC the Vulcan Science Acadamey was the premier science institute in the 23rd century, and is probably now associated with Daystrom, and Daystrom came around in the 24th... do I have that right?

Tower of Commere would make a nice Colossus... yes.

It seems we have the equivalents of Newton and Copernicus...

We should also figure out what City Improvements we want. The Barracks/Airport Starbase idea... also civing it bonuses to defense would be wise as we know they often play such a role... (this will likely be the uber improvement).

Other I can see are:
Antimatter/Matter production center (Nuclear Power Plant (an accident could be bad) or something?)
Solar Power Plant(probably more effecient at this time)
Police Station seems to carry over well...
Perhaps a Media related structure (anto-war weariness or something?)
Holosuite arcade (or Holographic theater or something like that)
Temple (Carries over well)
(Equivalent to a Cathedral???)
University (Level 1 Science center)
Research lab (Level 2)
Orbital Research Facility (Level 3) (Think that's good for science?)

For Economics... it'll be interesting... It seems like there are not that many major corporations running around so Stock Market seems out (and I see the Ferengi, while worshiping profit, as more a multitude of Small Businesses)...
Marketplace seems to carryover well... Bank doesn't as they either use 'credits' or Latinum.

I'm currently stumped. Anyone else have ideas?

(For B5... SPOO RANCHES!!! !!!)

[TheDarkling]

On th economics area the Ferengi do have the Ferengi Futures Exchange which could be stock exchange - the ferengi need to be an economic power house simlpy because they fail in most other areas (empire size, fleet size, ship tech) this would allow them to have a share in yhe grand scheme.

On the issue of temples - it seems like only the Bajorans and Klingons still practice religion and the Klingon one is very loose.

Factories could be replaced by industrial replicators (which seem to do all heavy scale production).

Hmm what else is there?

[sela1s1son]

I'm sure the Feddies do, and the Romulans probably have something going... but the Bajorans are the most religious and are the best candidate for the Religious trait...

[sela1s1son]

As for traits in the scenario series I've done before I did give some civs 3, others 2 depending on the civ... so I think that may be wise here.

Ferengi: Commercial (that was hard ;-) ) and Industrious???
Federation:Industrious and Expansionistic ( and/or Scientific?)
Romulans:Scientific, Millitaristic and Expansionist
Klingons: Millitaristic, Industrious
Bajorans: Religious, and... Commercial (the Wormhole, and they're simply a major route now)?
Cardassians:Millitaristic (They've gone to war as they needed food or something for a long time and Cardassia Prime was (early in thier history) starting to be unable to support them.... I'm not sure here... the three choices for them would be Mil/Ind/ and may Exp

Breen: Mill... that's all I can see for them.

What are your opinions?

[LesCanadiens]

There is no way in hell the Romulans are close to the Federation in any area that we know of. I mean, maybe they have loads of natural resources, or additional production facilities that were never described in the show, but the fact of the matter is this:

Federation- *********/10
Klingons- ********/10 Lose points for poor economy, but gain for super elite troops.
Romulans- ****** and a half/10
Cardassian- ******/10 And SHIPYARDS DOES NOT MEAN TECHNOLOGY. IT MEANS A PLACE TO PRODUCE VESSELS. THE FEDS COULD COME IN AND STRIP IT DOWN OF USEFUL TECH, THEN HAND THEM OVER.
Breen- ***/10 They just plain suck
Ferengi- ** and a half. Monstorous amount of cash, but in a universe where the Feds have no monetary system, it is useless. Corrupt as hell too. Put Enron to shame.